# Bush is Doomed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042 "2004-05-25T19:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/21 "2004-05-26T01:24:00Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Actually, we made a big deal about how we were redeploying forces to guard those very same pipelines back in April. Fancy razamataz about snipers in helicopters with night vision killing people without ever being seen, that kind of stuff. The gist was, the best units we had. We’ve helped train some of the forces involved. But in August, Erinys Iraq took over the security for the pipelines. Here’s occupation watch’s comments on Erinys: [occupationwatch.org](http://www.occupationwatch.org/search.php?q=erinys&date=§ion=) Erinys is founded, financed and run by the friends and family of the INC. Here’s an excerpt from the Dope: [**Where do the INC’s prodigal Iraqis “_normally reside_”?**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4861132&highlight=erinys#post4861132) [Erinys](http://www.erinysinternational.com/iraq/iraq.shtml) is a non-Iraqi PMC in Iraq reportedly based in [London](http://www.forward.com/main/article.php?ref=perelman20040218608) and [Johannesburg](http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=2170). It’s a prime contractor to the [Gulf Regional Division of the United States Army Corp of Engineers](http://www.erinysinternational.com/iraq/iraq.shtml) supplying security details, is contracted to the Iraqi [Ministry of Oil](http://www.erinysinternational.com/iraq/oil_security.shtml) for security for Iraq’s oil infrastructure, and is subcontracted to protect K[ellogg, Brown and Root](http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18588). Erinys Iraq was [financed](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/after/2004/0215chalabicontract.htm) by [Abul Huda Farouki](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/8060399.htm)’s [Nour USA](http://www.nourusa.com/about.htm). Nour is a [joint venture partner](http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=2170) with Erinys on the “[oil police](http://www.erinysinternational.com/pdfs/Jan%2017%202004%20Washington%20Post%20Iraqi%20Oil%20Gets%20Own%20Police%20Force.pdf)” contract. Jordanian court records from [Ahmed Chalabi](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3326581post3326581)’s [Petra Bank embezzlement](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/11/30/130012.shtml) trial show bankrupt [Farouki companies owed Petra more than $12 million](http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PRT.jsp?articleid=10288). The [relationship between Farouki and Chalabi](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/8060399.htm) highlights conflict of interest and bid fixing concerns regarding the $327 million contract, ([temporarily](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/columnists/drew_brown/8118085.htm)), awarded Nour to [outfit the new Iraqi army](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4441088/). Industry experts contend the equipment alone costs more than $500 million. Nour USA lacks experience with similar contracts as required by bid guidelines. Faisal Daghistani, founder and director of Erinys Iraq, is the son of INC official Tamara Daghistani, a long-time friend of Ahmed Chalabi key in the creation of the INC, and [alleged getaway driver when Chalabi fled prosecution](http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2003/msg05145.html) for embezzling. Mr. Daghistani said US-trained [Iraqi Free Forces who entered Iraq with Chalabi are now Erinys recruits](http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=2170). Vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. Peter Pace, said Iraqi Free Forces would “[become basically the core of the new Iraqi army once Iraq is free](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A42859-2003Apr6¬Found=true).” Erinys’s counsel in Baghdad Ahmed Chalabi’s nephew Salem Chalabi. An Iraqi Governing Council member accuses the Iraqi National Congress of undermining central authority by using a private military company to secure the oil sector. There’re concerns that Erinys is Chalabi’s private militia. > [@Zagadka](#): > > The media has been more than quiet on this subject. This is the main oil pipeline out of Iraq, and this is how we were supposed to be funding rebuilding. that may’ve been bandied about a bit on talk radio, but it was never a realistic option. Iraq’s debt is massive. Even without it though, most all of Iraq’s income woud still go to merely running the country for years to come. [Bean Counting in Baghdad: Debt, Reparations, Reconstruction, and Resources](http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/rsepResources/si/june03/middleEast.asp) _Strategic Insights published by the Center for Contemporary Conflict (CCC), research arm of the National Security Affairs Department at the Naval Postgraduate School_ What I find interesting are the cities that we and our coalition patrners lost cotrol of. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/22 "2004-05-26T01:35:03Z")
Interesting post, thank you, though I specifically remember one article from April documenting a US military unit being detatched to aid the defense in the pipeline. I believe I cited it on this board once, let me see if I can dig it up. > [@SimonX](#): > > What I find interesting are the cities that we and our coalition patrners lost cotrol of. Which would translate to, “most of Iraq.” Given that even in the urban zones that we **do** control, they still don’t have 24/7 electricity and such, much of the north and south are being run by militia. I’m not directing this at you, **Simon** , by the way, I’m sure you know more about this than I do. But this is why we have difficulty supplying troops and moving around Iraq - we don’t control it, much like we never controlled any Afghanistan. As far as occupation forces go, we are proving to be exceptionally poor ones. Maybe no one has anything to fear from us after all? We have no problem blowing all your stuff up, but after that, we stand around and scratch our asses waiting for something to happen, and failing that, start abusing prisoners. The military end of the Pentagon lived up to its part of the deal… where is the Bush Admin’s part? And why doesn’t anyone seem to care? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/23 "2004-05-26T01:41:13Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > This is the same pipeline that has been out of action or operating at less than half capacity for most of the occupation. > > [Occupation Watch articles on it](http://www.occupationwatch.org/search.php?q=pipeline) > > The media has been more than quiet on this subject. Yes, they have. One of the two pipelines from Basra to the Faw peninsula on the gulf got creamed on May 8. The flow in that direction’s been cut in half; see [Iraq Pipeline Watch](http://www.iags.org/n052504.htm). ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/24 "2004-05-26T02:30:13Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > l, they still don’t have 24/7 electricity and such,.? One guy released from Abu Ghraib is reported to hve said: “They brought electricity to my ass before bringing it to my house…” (Which makes him good sport of the year, in my book.) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/25 "2004-05-26T02:33:59Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yes, they have. > > One of the two pipelines from Basra to the Faw peninsula on the gulf got creamed on May 8. The flow in that direction’s been cut in half; see [Iraq Pipeline Watch](http://www.iags.org/n052504.htm). Squink, I love you. That link is awesome, thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/26 "2004-05-26T02:34:54Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yes, they have. > > One of the two pipelines from Basra to the Faw peninsula on the gulf got creamed on May 8. The flow in that direction’s been cut in half; see [Iraq Pipeline Watch](http://www.iags.org/n052504.htm). HOLY SHIT! on a quick scan it looks like ten kablooies a week! ok, five. but stil, ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/27 "2004-05-26T03:54:40Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > HOLY SHIT! > > on a quick scan it looks like ten kablooies a week! > > ok, five. but stil, Taking friday and saturday off ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/28 "2004-05-26T04:03:44Z")
For the greedy, there’s still money to be made here: Iraq is out of action in the energy markets for the foreseeable future. Far as I can tell, only a few intrepid souls have figured out the truly dire implications of this, if combined with a world in which demand is growing because of the rapid development of China and India, in other words, the world we are inhabiting right now. 60 per barrel oil is just about a dunkshot, IMO; 80 a barrel, not out of the question. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/29 "2004-05-26T05:03:41Z")
You know, I can remember the conservatives chuckling happily that Clinton was sure to lose the 1996 election, only to have Clinton snag reelection come November. Afterwards, liberal organizations were claiming that Clinton won simply because the Republicans abandoned Dole because they felt that it was better for the party gain control of both houses of Congress instead of holding just the White House. Bush serves up Bin Laden’s head on a silver platter anytime between now and November, and Kerry’s going to have a tough time of it. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/30 "2004-05-26T05:54:07Z")
I thought some of you might be interested in this article ([Bush: The Dream Campaign](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17176)) in the _New York Review of Books_: > [@](#): > > (excerpt) > The main message of the reelection strategy devised by Karl Rove, the President’s chief political adviser, is to present Bush as a strong and successful wartime leader. The war in Iraq was expected to work in Bush’s favor, and the Bush people planned to emphasize it more than any other issue. The adverse turn of events in Iraq has therefore been the greatest setback for Bush’s reelection effort, and the recent revelations of torture by American troops have caused a political crisis for the President. But well before these revelations, the horrors of the “postwar” period for American troops and the Iraqi people were seen by Bush and his team as a political misfortune. The failure to find weapons of mass destruction has also been a disaster. The public, according to the polls, finds Bush less and less convincing in his claims about Iraq. He continues to insist that the US occupation will end well—but he cannot talk away the news about Americans and Iraqis being killed every day and the horrifying pictures from Abu Ghraib prison. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/31 "2004-05-27T01:58:05Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > … Bush serves up Bin Laden’s head on a silver platter anytime between now and November, and Kerry’s going to have a tough time of it. I don’t even know if I’ll concede this. Bringing in Bin Laden near the election, if things go fairly well in Iraq for the next 5 months, maybe. But a continuing debacle in Iraq would overshadow capturing Bin Laden, unless it was extraordinarily lucky timing or really, really well handled – and to handle it well enough, they’d need to orchestrate it. And doing that runs the risk of being caught, and then run out of town on a rail. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/32 "2004-06-03T01:19:41Z")
Bush has hired outside counsel re the Plame investigation. I guess that Mr. Gonzales, (the one who called the geneva conventions crafted by the WWII generation ‘quaint’), just wasn’t enough. Doomed I say. DOOMED. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/33 "2004-06-03T01:25:37Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Bush has hired outside counsel re the Plame investigation. > > I > . Somewhere in Westchester, a slightly overweight man of ruddy complexion, crosses his legs in his lazyboy, adjusts his six foot four frame. puts down a peanut butter and banana sandwich, and smiles… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/34 "2004-06-03T02:03:42Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Bush has hired outside counsel re the Plame investigation. Why: > [@](#): > > Bush would be strongly motivated to hire an outside attorney because of a federal appellate court decision stemming from the Whitewater investigation of President Bill Clinton. > > In that decision, Clark said, the court held that a conversation between a government official and a government attorney concerning a criminal investigation does not enjoy attorney-client privilege. Thus the only way Bush could be certain of keeping his conversations with a lawyer private would be to hire outside counsel. Who: > [@](#): > > Washington attorney Jim Sharp… > Sharp was a lawyer for retired Air Force General Richard V. Secord, who pleaded guilty in 1989 to lying to Congress about the Reagan administration’s funding of Nicaraguan Contra rebels with funds raised from Iranian arms sales, according to Bloomberg News. The U.S. District Court in Washington expunged his conviction in 2000, at Secord’s request. [Newsday](http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usbush0603a,0,3971569.story?coll=ny-top-headlines) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/35 "2004-06-03T02:54:10Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Bush has hired outside counsel re the Plame investigation. > > I guess that Mr. Gonzales, (the one who called the geneva conventions crafted by the WWII generation ‘quaint’), just wasn’t enough. > Doomed I say. > DOOMED. Dear Mr. X I’m writing to you, because you are the richest man I know and I have a wonderful idea for a new business and I’m going to let you in for half. I know you must be very rich, because you persist in describing yourself (on official forms,yet) as a “Republican”. Since your posts betray an understanding of the socioeconoicgeopoliticalhistoricalanarchosyndicalist dialectic I have to figure that you choose to betray this understanding in the not reprehensible pursuit of personal advantage through the operation of Republican policies. Since I judge your level of understanding as moderately high, I therefor deduce that it would take a substantial personal gain to overcome the promptings of this understanding. Reasoning backwards, I deduce that your gain from Bush policies must come in at one to two hundred large, from which I conclude your net worth is over fifty mill. My congratulations, and reiterated request for a small (to you) loan of $50,000. Looking forward to a profitable co-venture, I have the honor to subscribe myself, Your (hopeful) debtor, Alaric, yclept “The Goth” ---
**Author:** ![braintree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@braintree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/braintree)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/36 "2004-06-03T14:22:28Z")
I’ve made this obsservation in other threads but I’ll make it here again. Of the Republicans I know, not one can work up any kind of sincere enthusiasm for President Bush. He’s a bum and they know it, even if they don’t like Kerry. Democrats on the other hand are just crazy to see Kerry get elected. You can bet the farm that the anti-Bush turnout is going to be huge, huge, huge while a lot of Republicans are going to sit this one out. Bush is toast. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/37 "2004-06-03T20:45:46Z")
As Nancy Pelosi said about Bush, “He’s _so_ gone.” I think it’s getting to the point where not even Diebold will be able to save his sorry ass. > [@SimonX](#): > > The SSCI’s investigating the INC’s DoD funded ICP, that was run by an Iranian spy, (a former member of the IRGC). The ICP passed information directly to its primary point of contact in the OSD, (Office of SECDEF), and the OVP. In the OSD was William Luti, who oversaw the OSP, (linked to the PCTEG). In the OVP… _LBJ took the IRT down to Fourth Street USA…_ ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/38 "2004-06-03T21:11:15Z")
I wish that were true. I fear a recovering economy may boost him back into the Oval Office. I notice that the Plame link in the OP is dated February 6, 2004. Does anyone have an update of this investigation? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/39 "2004-06-03T22:58:07Z")
W > [@Algernon](#): > > I wish that were true. I fear a recovering economy may boost him back into the Oval Office. > > I notice that the Plame link in the OP is dated February 6, 2004. Does anyone have an update of this investigation? W just lawyered up . presumably Cheney did too. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042/40 "2004-06-03T23:19:15Z")
I saw Peggy Noonan’s reaction to Bush’s speech on the state of Iraq a few weeks back. In a scale where 10 is her husband James Carville’s infectious enthusiam for any Democrat, and one being Darla-like dreariness, she was around 2 when she talked about Bush. If she can’t talk about Bush without smiling, who can? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-doomed/247042.md?page=3)