# Bush is not an idiot. YOU are! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2002, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291 "2002-12-08T10:29:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/41 "2002-12-08T22:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > It is not known whether OBL still breathes. > We do know that he hasn’t produced any more video tapes. > Al Qaeda and their Taliban allies no longer control Afghanistan, where they subjected the people to many atrocities > Many predicted massive famine in Afghanistan last winter. E.g. This disaster was averted by our rapid victory which permitted food aid to the needy people. 1.) An audio tape of Osama been Hidin’ was authenticated just a couple of weeks ago, was it not? The argument that “…well…he might be dead…YOU don’t know” is pretty weak anyway. We also can’t prove that he’s not holed up in a Mexican whorehouse, smoking hash, and getting a double blow job from two senoritas while watching _The Two Towers_ on a bootleg DVD. W made an awful lot of noise about getting OBL “dead or alive” a little over a year ago. Now he seems to have given up on it. I don’t see how you can characterize the continued freedom of the guy who was actually RESPONSIBLE for the 9/11 attack as representing anything other than an embarrassing, abject failure for Bush inc. 2.) We successfuly replaced one gang of thugs with another one. The oppression of the Afghan people has continued unabated under the Northern Alliance. Here is what a recent [Human Rights Watch report](http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/11/05112002163317.asp) has to say about one of the most powerful warlords currently placed in power by the US. > [@](#): > > The Human Rights Watch report focuses on one regional commander in particular, Herat Province Governor Ismail Khan. Coursen-Neff explained why Human Rights Watch sees the case of Ismail Khan as an important test case for the future of Afghanistan. “Human Rights Watch has also done research about human rights violations in the north and in the south [of Afghanistan]. But we picked Herat for [this study for] a number of reasons. One reason is because some of the security issues that are such a problem in the north and in the south are not present in Herat. We picked Herat, in part, because Ismail Khan has brought more security to the region, but at the same time, **[he] has demonstrated what happens when you put power in the hands of a warlord. Since he gained control of that area, he has been incredibly repressive to the people that live under his control.** In some ways, it’s a bit of a prediction of what can happen to other parts of Afghanistan. In other ways, it’s a good place to look at because it is considered one of the worst areas in Afghanistan for women’s human rights and because there is such a range of repressions of civil and political rights in Herat,” Coursen-Neff said. > > **As Coursen-Neff explained, the 51-page document produced by her organization presents evidence and witness testimony about political repressions, torture, arbitrary arrests, extortion, illegal road blockades, and violations of free speech in Herat Province.** It also alleges that the violations are the result of direct orders from Ismail Khan. “One of the main tenets of the report is that **Ismail Khan has a great deal of independent power in western Afghanistan, and that the West has enabled him to consolidate that power.** He himself is wielding a kind of ministate out there with very little control from any other authority. And that’s why we are calling on all actors to have influence on Ismail Khan, including the United States, Europe, donor governments, the United Nations, and the Afghan Transitional Authority to wield whatever power and influence they have over Ismail Khan to hold him accountable for the things he is doing out there in Herat,” Coursen-Neff said. Some fucking progress. And let’s not forget that scattering Al Qaeda has now actually made them harder to locate, track, and predict. If anything, the campaign in Afghanistan has increased the threat of terrorsitic reprisals at the US. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/42 "2002-12-08T23:48:33Z")
I think we should conquer Afganistan. Again. Repeat until we get a leader who is not evil, or they run out. My money says that they’ll run out first. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/43 "2002-12-09T00:42:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > \*\*From this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=141846&highlight=Chumpsky+and+Bush): > I think you’ve made it perfectly clear here who the real idiot is. \*\* Touche. Yes, I admit it, it is tempting to call Bush an idiot. When I call him an idiot, I am being an idiot. I should point out the context. There is no doubt that Bush is illiterate and ignorant. I’m sure he couldn’t have located Afghanistan on a map two years ago. But, his ignorance and illiteracy does not make him stupid. On issues regarding foreign affairs, he is largely ignorant of what is going on. But, this doesn’t matter to him. He is a political animal, and he is a VERY shrewd politician. Some of his pronouncements are idiotic and ignorant, but this simply distracts from what he is really doing. His ignorance of world affairs is not a weakness for him. Even though he has only the vaguest idea of what is going on around the world, he DOES know what is important to him, and that is politics. You are right though. I was being an idiot by calling Bush an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/44 "2002-12-09T00:46:44Z")
Dude, you’re an idiot simply by typing something on your computer and pressing submit. There’s no need to qualify your idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/45 "2002-12-09T00:57:48Z")
Airman, Chumpsky conceded the point, I think it’s hardly sporting of you to be so rude at that exact moment, and of the two of you, it isn’t Chumpsky that looks bad. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/46 "2002-12-09T00:58:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*Let me tell you something. If you think your enemies are stupid, YOU are fucking stupid. \*\* So by this you are saying those that disagree with you are stupid, thus… Just an observation. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/47 "2002-12-09T01:03:31Z")
Actually, **Airman** , I respect the spirit of his last post, whereas I don’t respect anything else he’s ever written. He got caught in a contradiction and rogered up to it. I fully expected some weaseling. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/48 "2002-12-09T02:40:19Z")
**Stoid** , I agree that I was rude, and that comparatively speaking I look like a jerk. Given our past dealings, however, I simply couldn’t let that pass without driving the stake in a little bit deeper. I think I was actually quite kind to him, given the fact that he [questioned my integrity](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144828&perpage=50&pagenumber=3) and that of my fellow servicemen and women by spouting this gem, among others: > [@](#): > > You are nothing but a global rent-a-cop for multi-national corporations. You don’t serve the people of America, but Wall Street. I owe him nothing but my total and utter contempt and scorn. If he were dying of thirst I wouldn’t piss in his mouth. So, was I justified? Probably not. But every once in a while it feels good to lower your guard, stop being the better man, and reduce yourself to the level of your adversary, even if it means that you lose some respect in the process. In this case, it feels damn good, and I will not apologize for it. ---
**Author:** ![Fearless\_Freap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Fearless\_Freap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fearless_Freap)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/49 "2002-12-09T02:49:35Z")
I think those who voted for Clinton need to vilify Bush, its allot easier than admitting they voted a dolt into the Whitehouse in “92”. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/50 "2002-12-09T02:56:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*1.) An audio tape of Osama been Hidin’ was authenticated just a couple of weeks ago, was it not? Yes and no. The US said it probably was OBL, but a Swiss organization said it almost certainly wasn’t OBL. > [@](#): > > I don’t see how you can characterize the continued freedom of the guy who was actually RESPONSIBLE for the 9/11 attack as representing anything other than an embarrassing, abject failure for Bush inc. My point was to dispute **NothingMan’s** flat statement that OBL is alive. > [@](#): > > 2.) Here is what a recent [Human Rights Watch report](http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/11/05112002163317.asp) has to say about one of the most powerful warlords currently placed in power by the US… Whatever the problems with this one particular warlord, I don’t believe anyone disagrees that most of the people of Afghanistan are far better off today than they were under the Taliban. Note that the HRW Report “urges an immediate expansion of the UN-mandated International Security Assistance Force so it can help provide security to areas outside of Kabul.” It doesn’t urge bringing back the Taliban.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/51 "2002-12-09T03:15:39Z")
Bullshit. **Chumpsky** says that anyone who calls Bush an idiot is an idiot. He gets called on this and tries to weasel out by claiming that he was being an idiot when he did that, but according to **Chumpsky** Bush is still illiterate and ignorant, or in other words Bush is still an idiot. Kind of funny because in his OP he’s going off about how smart Bush is and then in his last post he’s trying to claim Bush is very smart only in a limited fashion, but overall is an idiot in all but name. He’s carefully choosing which definitions of idiot are allowed and disregarding others. **Chumpsky** can play semantics all he wants but he’s still using a double standard. The first definition out of the OED on idiot is: > [@](#): > > uneducated, ignorant person Sounds a lot like “illiterate and ignorant”, don’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/52 "2002-12-09T05:24:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*Yes, I admit it, it is tempting to call Bush an idiot. When I call him an idiot, I am being an idiot…his ignorance and illiteracy does not make him stupid. \*\* Thank god. I was almost in the position of having to pretty much agree with the **Chumpster**. But then he makes clear he does think Bush is stupid, just politically shrewd. Which classes **Chumpsky** with the rest of the anti-Bushites who won’t ever stop railing about the essential dumbness of the Prez and the godawful conspiracy that’s the only possible explanation for why he’s in office. And which is part of the reason he’ll be re-elected in a couple of years. Because the squawling and spite is such a turnoff for so many people. And because underestimating the man, or painting him as a puppet fiend is an invitation to continued failure. Time to dust off the sig again, and a hearty good night. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/53 "2002-12-09T06:01:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*Thank god. I was almost in the position of having to pretty much agree with the _Chumpster_. > > But then he makes clear he does think Bush is stupid, just politically shrewd. Which classes _Chumpsky_ with the rest of the anti-Bushites who won’t ever stop railing about the essential dumbness of the Prez and the godawful conspiracy that’s the only possible explanation for why he’s in office.\*\* No, no, no and NO! I emphatically do NOT think Bush is stupid. No no no. Being ignorant and illiterate does not make you stupid. So what if he doesn’t know about world affairs, or has no interest in learning about ideas? Does that make him stupid? Hell no. To take an obvious analogue, bin Laden, according to Robert Fisk who has interviewed him on numerous occasions, is also highly ignorant. He knows nothing of the western world, and doesn’t want to know. Is he an idiot? Hardly. Bush’s ignorance is more an expression of his elitism than anything else. He doesn’t have to learn about the world, so he doesn’t. He often brags about how poorly he did at Yale, a slap in the face to every poor person who clawed her way into Yale that the privileged elite gets in without merit and does nothing with it–because he can. Bush is an utterly despicable creature whose intents are entirely harmful not only to us, but to the world. But he is not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Fearless\_Freap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Fearless\_Freap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fearless_Freap)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/54 "2002-12-09T12:48:32Z")
Bush doesn’t have the shiney overcoat of deciet most presidents don while in office. Slick Willy had one but he kept taking it off and eventually it got sent to the cleaners. [http://standyourground.com/forum/images/smiles/icon\_lol.gif](http://standyourground.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) The best thing about Bush is “ignorant” one is doing what needs to get done, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it now. That is fact. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/55 "2002-12-09T14:15:44Z")
Well, well, if it isn’t a glue-huffing moron from the [FreeRepublic](http://www.freerepublic.com/). I presume he thinks he’s “Fearless” because of his bravery in posting on the SDMB despite his limited intellect. According to Mr. Glue-Huffer, Bush doesn’t have a shiney (sic) overcoat of deciet (sic) that most presidents (sic) have – yeah, chief, because his goddamn primer coat is pure deceit. After eschewing our Smilies, no doubt because that would have taken actual brainpower, Mr. GH defends our fine Prez with informing us that Bush is “ignorant” about what needs to be done, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Apparently this is a wonderful thing. IMO, **Fearless Freap** has an overcoat of inbred moron. ---
**Author:** ![Fearless\_Freap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Fearless\_Freap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fearless_Freap)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/56 "2002-12-09T14:34:48Z")
Ihave no idea what the hell you are talking about, care to try and explain. So, I like Bush, get over it. Whoever you THINK I am , you are sadly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Fearless\_Freap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Fearless\_Freap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fearless_Freap)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/57 "2002-12-09T14:45:38Z")
I guess after reading my post this morning, I can see now I left out a few words here and there…this happens when one has just got up, sorry. I tried to use a smiley from another forum, I didnt know that was not permissable. So, with that in mind, heres to you, moron. If you were so smart you would direct your fucking anger at me instead of speaking about me like you are Johnny from the “The Price is Right” narrating a descriptive of a Hotpoint appliance set. Eat it and like it. :wally ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/58 "2002-12-09T14:46:52Z")
Has any presdient ever had a 100% approval rating? ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/59 "2002-12-09T19:54:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*Has any presdient ever had a 100% approval rating? \*\* Yes! [Saddam wins 100% of the vote](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2331951.stm) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291/60 "2002-12-09T19:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*No, no, no and NO! > > I emphatically do NOT think Bush is stupid. No no no. > > Being ignorant and illiterate does not make you stupid. \*\* And it especially does not seem to disqualify one from making comments regarding the intelligence of others, particularly on the SDMB. But I digress. I’m afraid the “qualification” of your remarks isn’t going to cut it either. When comments like these are made, there’s always a dearth of evidence showing there’s a practical difference between the intelligence and/or knowledge base of GW2 and any other President who, for example, served previously as Governor of a southern state (i.e. Clinton and Carter). Various smirking insinuations, but no real evidence. The point remains - the people who focus on Bush’s perceived dumbness rather than making a straightforward assault on the wrongheadedness, shortsightedness and ultimate futility of many of his policies are really doing him a great favor. Just keep on underestimating him. It’ll give you six more years to posture and scoff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-not-an-idiot-you-are/141291.md?page=4)