# Bush is right and Kennedy's wrong: liberal heads explode over Cape Wind project **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052 "2006-05-09T12:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/1 "2006-05-09T12:36:53Z")
So **Sampiro** thinks [he’s got problems](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369964) because he agrees with Sean Hannity and feels sorry for a member of the Phelps clan? I can top that: as an honest liberal and environmentalist, I now have to rebuke Senator Kennedy and agree with President Bush. Ow ow ow ow ow ow, brain pain!! Because Kennedy is being a selfish moron in his continued opposition to the [proposed Cape Wind Project](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/05/06/us_official_opposes_cape_wind_measure/?page=1) in Nantucket Sound off Cape Cod. Yes, Senator, the site of the proposed wind farm has some problems, in addition to “ruining” the view from your family’s vacation home (by putting a few small specks on the horizon, that is). Yes, it’s in a high-tourism area and may cause some inconvenience for fishing boats. Yes, it involves privatizing part of a public commons. Yes, it may have effects on local wildlife (although the plan has passed some fairly stringent environmental impact assessments, so I don’t think you need worry overmuch on that score). But you know what? **All** large-scale energy-generating efforts have such impacts in one form or another. It’s just that most of them involve oil pumping in foreign countries and industrial docks or coal mines in low-income areas, where the rich and privileged don’t have to look at them. Like it or not, Nantucket Sound is where the wind is, and if we’re ever going to get serious about reducing our addiction to fossil fuels and their disastrous consequences for the environment and for the stability of the Middle East, we’re going to have to make some painful compromises. **Most** liberals recognize this and support the Cape Wind plan. Why don’t you? Because even the Bush administration :eek: is now opposing your efforts to shut down the Cape Wind deal (see above link). I have done my level best to figure out what nefarious ulterior motive is prompting them to do this, and I’m forced to conclude that Bush Undersecretary of Energy David K. Garman is simply doing his damn job: > [@](#): > > In a strongly worded letter dated Thursday, Under Secretary of Energy David K. Garman called the measure backed by US Senator Edward M. Kennedy unwise and said it could threaten future renewable energy projects that the administration hopes to foster. > > ''More broadly, singling out wind generation in this manner could have a chilling impact on the continued investment and growth of this promising renewable energy resource," Garman wrote to the House and Senate chairmen of the committees involved with the legislation. Shame on the Kennedys and a few other NIMBY liberals for putting themselves in a position to be rebuked by the Bushies, and embarrassing the rest of us liberals, by being unwilling to make any sacrifices for a serious and important milestone in environmental protection and energy independence. (I note with relief that at least I can still look down on Republican Governor of Massachusetts (and 2008 Presidential hopeful) Mitt Romney, who also opposes the Cape Wind Project. Chowderhead. :mad: ) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/2 "2006-05-09T12:39:14Z")
Agreed 100%. If only Bush would spend more time advocating wind power, he might have a shot at my support. You REpublicans listening? Put Washington’s greatest resource to use! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/3 "2006-05-09T12:45:29Z")
I’ve often thought that the mountain passes in East Tennessee should be heavily wind farmed. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/4 "2006-05-09T12:57:58Z")
Waiting for the first “Harness politician’s breath” joke. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/5 "2006-05-09T13:02:32Z")
I used to be in agreement with Kennedy on this, now I’m sort of on the fence. How much power will be generated, in contrast to the total needs of New England? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/6 "2006-05-09T13:02:41Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Waiting for the first “Harness politician’s breath” joke. **Left Hand of Dorkness** already delivered it, albeit in a roundabout way. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/7 "2006-05-09T13:10:04Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I used to be in agreement with Kennedy on this, now I’m sort of on the fence. > > How much power will be generated, in contrast to the total needs of New England? It doesn’t matter. It’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/8 "2006-05-09T13:13:36Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I used to be in agreement with Kennedy on this, now I’m sort of on the fence. > > How much power will be generated, in contrast to the total needs of New England? From the [Cape Wind](http://www.capewind.org/FAQ-Category4-Cape+Wind+Basics-Parent0-myfaq-yes.htm#21) web site. > [@](#): > > Average expected production will be 170 megawatts which is almost 75% of the 230 megawatt average electricity demand for Cape Cod and the Islands of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/9 "2006-05-09T13:15:22Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > It doesn’t matter. It’s a start. It sure does matter. If the amount of power generated approaches zero, then it’s a huge waste and a major disaster. Last I heard it was going to generate about 1% of the region’s power demands. That’s one sucky ROI. But I may be wrong on that number. Got anything more solid than “It doesn’t matter”? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/10 "2006-05-09T13:16:56Z")
Just curious, do the Kenedys really have a vacation home that will be affected by this? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/11 "2006-05-09T13:20:05Z")
No, it doesn’t matter. If we base every objection on economics we’ll never get anywhere because it’s always cheaper to go with oil or coal. If you want clean energy you have to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/12 "2006-05-09T13:21:10Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > How much power will be generated, in contrast to the total needs of New England? [Sez here](http://www.capewind.org/FAQ-Category4-Cape+Wind+Basics-Parent0-myfaq-yes.htm#21) that average expected production will be 170 megawatts, or about 75% of the total energy demand (230 MW) for all of Cape Cod and the Islands. Peak energy demand for **all** of New England can be [as much as 27000 MW](http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060426/20060426005779.html?.v=1), although the average seems to be more like 25000. So Cape Wind would be supplying about 0.7% of the energy needs of the entire New England region (which, to keep things in perspective, has about 5% of the entire US population). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/13 "2006-05-09T13:35:58Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Just curious, do the Kenedys really have a vacation home that will be affected by this? Yes. I’ve seen it. If it’s truly 75% of the Cape and islands, then it’s probably worth it. I don’t exactly trust Cape Wind’s estimate, and in any case I hate the idea (being that that region accounts for about 90% of my vacation time), but if even 50% of the region’s power can be provided by this Big Ugly Meat Grinder, then I guess I’ll sadly support it. BTW, this topic came up a few years ago, and several people were waiting for my report on the pilot tower. That is, could I see it from where I was. The answer is no, not at all. Not even on the many clear days that Cape Wind claims don’t exist there. Anybody know if the thing was even built, and if so, where? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/14 "2006-05-09T13:39:56Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > No, it doesn’t matter. If we base every objection on economics we’ll never get anywhere because it’s always cheaper to go with oil or coal. If you want clean energy you have to pay for it. It’s more than just economics. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/15 "2006-05-09T13:43:31Z")
WHat else is there. You’re the one that brought up the ROI. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/16 "2006-05-09T13:58:44Z")
Thanks tdn. I hope you guys will excuse my ignorance, this is not really a national issue and I’m all the way over on the left coast. Is there any possible valid reason Kennedy would oppose this wind farm? I mean there were all kinds of get rich quick tax scam boondogle windmill projects out here in California. Generally all you have to do is follow the money. Who will receive the lions share of the financial benefit if this project goes through? I am not talking about some generalized benefit to rate payers. Who, if anyone, will get a pocket full of cold hard cash if this project goes forward? I know we need to explore alternatives to petroleum, but there are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/17 "2006-05-09T14:01:58Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > WHat else is there. You’re the one that brought up the ROI. Quality of life for one. Environmental issues for another. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/18 "2006-05-09T14:04:17Z")
So Kennedy’s a politician. Wow. Only 42 years into his Senate service, and some people are finally discovering that. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/19 "2006-05-09T14:05:38Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Quality of life for one. > > Environmental issues for another. Could you please cite the environmental concerns, my understanding is overall, wind farms have a much lower impact than Coal, Gas, Oil or Nuke and far less than Hydro-Electric Dams. I understand the concern for Sea birds but overall from my readings the primary concern with these Wind Farms appears to be Quality of Life in terms of “Ruining the View” Jim ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/20 "2006-05-09T14:05:57Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Who, if anyone, will get a pocket full of cold hard cash if this project goes forward? Cape Wind for one. I don’t know who else. Maybe it really is a NIMBY issue, but it’s interesting that most people that are for it are nationwide on both sides of the political aisle, and people that are against it are _local_ people – on both sides of the political aisle. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052.md?page=2)