# Bush is right and Kennedy's wrong: liberal heads explode over Cape Wind project **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052 "2006-05-09T12:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/21 "2006-05-09T14:11:00Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Could you please cite the environmental concerns, my understanding is overall, wind farms have a much lower impact than Coal, Gas, Oil or Nuke and far less than Hydro-Electric Dams. > I understand the concern for Sea birds I honestly don’t know what the impact will be – I’m ignorant on it – but I remember years ago that sea life was a concern as well. > [@](#): > > but overall from my readings the primary concern with these Wind Farms appears to be Quality of Life in terms of “Ruining the View” Which sounds selfish, to be sure. But in a place where 90% of industry is tourism, the view is not a trivial issue. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/22 "2006-05-09T14:12:22Z")
For what it is worth these EPA links give the official Goverment view of the various impacts of power generations: [http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/renew.htm](http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/renew.htm) [http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/impacts.htm](http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/impacts.htm) Jim ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/23 "2006-05-09T14:15:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So **Sampiro** thinks [he’s got problems](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369964) because he agrees with Sean Hannity and feels sorry for a member of the Phelps clan? I can top that: as an honest liberal and environmentalist, I now have to rebuke Senator Kennedy and agree with President Bush. Ow ow ow ow ow ow, brain pain!! Yea, partisan politics can have a crippling effect on independent thought. Maybe it’s time to grow up a little and start judging each individual issue on it’s merits and not acording to how your respective party is using it to enhance their own power? And bring about 50 million Republicans and Democrats with you, then we might have something. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/24 "2006-05-09T14:17:07Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Quality of life for one. > > Environmental issues for another. So now we’re back to NIMBY. My head hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/25 "2006-05-09T14:18:28Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Which sounds selfish, to be sure. But in a place where 90% of industry is tourism, the view is not a trivial issue. Who’s to say people won’t flock to the place, just to get a view of the wind farm? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/26 "2006-05-09T14:18:53Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Maybe it really is a NIMBY issue, but it’s interesting that most people that are for it are nationwide on both sides of the political aisle, and people that are against it are _local_ people – on both sides of the political aisle. Isn’t that almost the defining characteristic of NIMBYism? The vast majority of people are in favor, except for the people who’s back yards will be affected. In this case, the back yard belongs to politically connected rich folks instead of powerless schlubs who can be pushed around. I’d bet dollars to donuts that if the best location was in a poor neighborhood, we would have had the property seized via Eminent Domain and the wind farm would have been built right on top of someone’s house. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/27 "2006-05-09T14:28:53Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Isn’t that almost the defining characteristic of NIMBYism? The vast majority of people are in favor, except for the people who’s back yards will be affected. In this case, the back yard belongs to politically connected rich folks instead of powerless schlubs who can be pushed around. Wow, I’m a politically connected rich folk! Who knew? Funny how I barely made rent this month, and how politics almost always seems to go against my wishes. Not everyone who vacations there is a Kennedy. Most people who work there are poor college students. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/28 "2006-05-09T14:34:37Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Who’s to say people won’t flock to the place, just to get a view of the wind farm? Over the short term, probably a lot will. When the novelty wears off, a lot of people might decide to vacation in a place that doesn’t resemble hundreds of giant meat grinders. Look, I’m all for clean and renewable energy sources. But I’d like some say over what goes into my back yard rather than cave in to a bunch of non-locals who think they know what’s best for me (and who seem to have a beef with the Kennedys). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/29 "2006-05-09T14:35:38Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > So now we’re back to NIMBY. My head hurts. Sure. Don’t pollute in my back yard. Selfish of me, I know. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/30 "2006-05-09T14:36:24Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wow, I’m a politically connected rich folk! Who knew? Funny how I barely made rent this month, and how politics almost always seems to go against my wishes. > > Not everyone who vacations there is a Kennedy. Most people who work there are poor college students. Congrats on the Promotion. 😉 I’m interested in this issue because NJ is going through the same debates. My gut feeling is the state will end up building the Wind Farm off Bradley Beach or Asbury Park as these towns are not well off. The Proposed sight of Belmar already has organized resistance. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/31 "2006-05-09T14:36:37Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > So now we’re back to NIMBY. My head hurts. New England’s not the area with [rolling blackouts](http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/2686056.html): > [@](#): > > HOUSTON (AP) - With the prospect of another day of record heat, the state’s power suppliers urged Texans to cut down on their electricity usage and pushed to get power flowing from some plants that had been idled for maintenance. > > Power companies throughout the state had to impose rolling blackouts Monday because of unseasonably hot weather and a shortage of electricity. Thousands of people were caught without electricity for short periods of time as highs reached into the low 100s. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/32 "2006-05-09T14:37:48Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > BTW, this topic came up a few years ago, and several people were waiting for my report on the pilot tower. That is, could I see it from where I was. The answer is no, not at all. Not even on the many clear days that Cape Wind claims don’t exist there. Anybody know if the thing was even built, and if so, where? Ha! I remember that thread. So you couldn’t see it due to its small size or you couldn’t see it, due to it not being there? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/33 "2006-05-09T14:38:14Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Over the short term, probably a lot will. When the novelty wears off, a lot of people might decide to vacation in a place that doesn’t resemble hundreds of giant meat grinders. > > Look, I’m all for clean and renewable energy sources. But I’d like some say over what goes into my back yard rather than cave in to a bunch of non-locals who think they know what’s best for me (and who seem to have a beef with the Kennedys). You might have a point, except that every artist’s depiction of the wind farm I’ve seen shows it waaaaay off on the horizon. It’ll definitely be there, visible, but as for impacting the view? From what I’ve seen, not a chance. It wouldn’t stop me from vacationing there for a second. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/34 "2006-05-09T14:44:01Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Ha! I remember that thread. So you couldn’t see it due to its small size or you couldn’t see it, due to it not being there? Yes. Or a third option, I couldn’t see it because it’s at the far end of the site. I’m not sure which of the three it is. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/35 "2006-05-09T14:47:14Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You might have a point, except that every artist’s depiction of the wind farm I’ve seen shows it waaaaay off on the horizon. It’ll definitely be there, visible, but as for impacting the view? From what I’ve seen, not a chance. It wouldn’t stop me from vacationing there for a second. I’ve seen the artists depictions, I’ve measured them, and I’ve compared by holding my fingers so far apart at arm’s length while on the very beaches impacted. While the distance is small when measured in arc degrees, it looks huge in reality. The structures will dwarf ships on the horizon. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/36 "2006-05-09T14:47:57Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > New England’s not the area with [rolling blackouts](http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/2686056.html): And they’re building, you guessed it, wind farms in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/37 "2006-05-09T14:52:14Z")
This is classic NIMBYism. Not everyone who lives there is politically connected, sure, but if there weren’t a bunch of politically connected people, we wouldn’t hear about this as an issue. Normally this sort of project is situated somewhere among poor folks who lack political clout, and their objections are unheard. It’s kind of fun to have it somewhere that bothers the American aristocracy, to be honest :). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/38 "2006-05-09T14:53:56Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Sure. Don’t pollute in my back yard. Selfish of me, I know. When it’s a project that is ultimately positive, and needed by the community at large, it needs to go forward. The fact that it is in somebody’s backyard is not reason enough to end the project, there isn’t anyplace around anymore that isn’t in someone’s backyard. That’s why NIMBY is a dirty word, because it’s presumed that the person would be all for it as long as it’s in someone else’s backyard. You have to admit, the only reason these complaints are getting serious traction is because of big wigs like Kennedy. If poor college students were the only people complaining, we wouldn’t have even heard them. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/39 "2006-05-09T14:54:14Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’ve seen the artists depictions, I’ve measured them, and I’ve compared by holding my fingers so far apart at arm’s length while on the very beaches impacted. While the distance is small when measured in arc degrees, it looks huge in reality. The structures will dwarf ships on the horizon. Yes, and if tourists can’t see the dwarf ships, the tourist industry will collapse. 😛 I think you’re grasping at straws. Look, I’ve vacationed in New England. To use Stephen King’s words, the attraction is to be “knocked out by the day”. Dwarfing ships or not, unless you can link me to a depiction that shows the windmills as anything other than distant features on the horizon, I don’t believe you have more than a minor point. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052/40 "2006-05-09T14:57:32Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > This is classic NIMBYism. Not everyone who lives there is politically connected, sure, but if there weren’t a bunch of politically connected people, we wouldn’t hear about this as an issue. Normally this sort of project is situated somewhere among poor folks who lack political clout, and their objections are unheard. It’s kind of fun to have it somewhere that bothers the American aristocracy, to be honest :). Yeah, damn those politicians for representing the will of the people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-kennedys-wrong-liberal-heads-explode-over-cape-wind-project/356052.md?page=3)