# Bush is right and the Democrats are full of shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716 "2006-03-09T18:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/21 "2006-03-09T20:17:41Z")
I agree with you DtC and to the best of my knowledge, the UAE has been a good ally through “The Long War”. I think congress is acting stupid and as usual, McCain is cutting through the Bullshit. He is not perfect but he is better than most. Jim ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/22 "2006-03-09T20:24:35Z")
There’s a wide range of Bush veto threats on just the first few pages of Google “Bush veto” - homeland security earmarking, scaling back the Patriot Act, highway funding, Medicare reductions, stem cell research, increasing taxes on oil companies, restoring restrictions on broadcast media ownership … Hasn’t done it, not once. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/23 "2006-03-09T20:32:41Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] There’s a wide range of Bush veto threats on just the first few pages of Google “Bush veto” - homeland security earmarking, scaling back the Patriot Act, highway funding, Medicare reductions, stem cell research, increasing taxes on oil companies, restoring restrictions on broadcast media ownership … Hasn’t done it, not once. [/QUOTE] By tacking this rider on a defence apropriations bill, he really can’t veto it. But the way things are going, I think Congress could override a veto if it came to that. This deal is sooooo unpopular its crazy. And the way the Pubs and Dems are tripping over each other to sound tough, I don’t think Congress will be affected one way or another if Dubai does pull completely out of the deal. They’ll still push some legislation thru. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/24 "2006-03-09T20:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] There’s a wide range of Bush veto threats on just the first few pages of Google “Bush veto” - homeland security earmarking, scaling back the Patriot Act, highway funding, Medicare reductions, stem cell research, increasing taxes on oil companies, restoring restrictions on broadcast media ownership … Hasn’t done it, not once. [/QUOTE] Simply because if he doesn’t agree with the bill, he invokes the right to simply ignore it (see, e.g., the McCain anti-torture bill). By the way, FTR, I disagree with **Diogenes** , but appreciate his principles. I would rather that we keep everything in-house, and particularly in the hands of our government, when security matters are involved. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/25 "2006-03-09T20:35:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Simply because if he doesn’t agree with the bill, he invokes the right to simply ignore it (see, e.g., the McCain anti-torture bill). By the way, FTR, I disagree with **Diogenes** , but appreciate his principles. I would rather that we keep everything in-house, and particularly in the hands of our government, when security matters are involved. [/QUOTE] That’s fair but it is a British company that was selling to a UAE company. So these ports were already out of house. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/26 "2006-03-09T20:36:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] I’d be interested in seeing a cite for any of this. It looks like scaremongering crap to me. [/QUOTE] You want a cite? That an english-speaking American middle manager will be less likely to pass shipping manifests on to a terrorist than an arabic-speaking UAE middle manager? WMD is scare mongering. Sadaam loves Bin Laden is scare mongering. Using the phrase 9/11 in every speech is scare mongering. Coming to an obvious conclusion? Maybe not so much… Could it happen with an American company? Sure could. Is it more, or less likely – that’s the question. We have to accept some risk. Let’s at least consider minimizing our exposure. Were you looking for a cite that the cargo’s themselves are dangerous? I’m not going to go into it, but trust me – taking out the right ship could have far more potential for loss of life and damage than 9/11. Here’s a [cite](http://www.polb.com/facilities/cargotenant/liquid_bulk/dowchemical.asp): Dow Chemical has 15 million gallons of storage capacity at Long Beach harbor. Here’s a [cite](http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/ports.htm) about UAE’s fitness for the job. The UAE’s [policy on Israel](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/politics/01port.html?ex=1298869200&en=50fef11bd1681723&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss). > [@](#): > > At a hearing of the Senate Commerce Committee, Edward H. Bilkey, the chief operating officer of Dubai Ports World, was pressed by several Democrats about Dubai’s position on the Arab boycott of Israel, following up on a report in The Jerusalem Post that said the holding company that controls Dubai Ports participated in the boycott. > > Mr. Bilkey first said the company was not involved in matters of state-to-state policy. Under questioning, he conceded that he believed the boycott was in force at company ports in Dubai. More security [concerns](http://upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20060223-051657-4981r). > [@](#): > > Central to the debate is the fact that the United Arab Emirates, while a key ally of the United States in the Middle East, has had troubling ties to terrorist networks, according to the Sept. 11 Commission report. It was one of the few countries in the world that recognized the al-Qaida-friendly Taliban government in Afghanistan; al-Qaida funneled millions of dollars through the U.A.E. financial sector; and A.Q. Khan, the notorious Pakistani nuclear technology smuggler, used warehouses near the Dubai port as a key transit point for many of his shipments. Plus, they’d know our counter-terrorism plans. > [@](#): > > “The Coast Guard oversees security, and they have the authority to inspect containers if they want and they can look at manifests, but they are really dependent on facility operators to carry out security issues,” Muldoon said. > > The Marine Transportation Security Act of 2002 requires vessels and port facilities to conduct vulnerability assessments and develop security plans including passenger, vehicle and baggage screening procedures; security patrols; establishing restricted areas; personnel identification procedures; access control measures; and/or installation of surveillance equipment. > > Under the same law, port facility operators may have access to Coast Guard security incident response plans – that is, they would know how the Coast Guard plans to counter and respond to terrorist attacks. Here’s a [description](http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_digbysblog_archive.html#114192240536035862) of the Bush’s involvement with the UAE. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/27 "2006-03-09T20:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] I thought I heard that under federal law, it is illegal for the US to do business with a country that does not recognize Israel. It is my understanding Dubai (who owns the port company) does not recognize Israel. Has this been resolved? [/QUOTE] It apparently [isn’t an issue to Israel](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_mi_ea/dubai_ports_israel_boycott_3), why should it be an issue in the US? > [@](#): > > CNN reported Thursday that a prominent Israeli shipping company, ZIM Integrated Shipping Services Ltd., wrote to a U.S. senator noting it does business with DP World and supports the U.S. deal. > > “As an Israeli company, security is of the utmost importance to us and we require rigorous security measures from terminal operators in every country in which we operate, but especially in Arab countries. And we are very comfortable calling at DP World’s Dubai ports,” ZIM chairman Idan Ofer wrote, CNN said. > > The letter said ZIM is allowed to operate at Dubai ports despite the formal boycott and that DP World handles ZIM operations in Dubai, according to CNN. Ofer did not specify if those ZIM operations were subsidiaries or directly owned. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/28 "2006-03-09T20:55:34Z")
UAE terror connection cites: [1 USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-09-02-terror-dubai_x.htm) [2 Seattle Times](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002824354_webbinladen23.html?syndication=rss) [3 (Foil hats on, but true enough)](http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-531) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/29 "2006-03-09T20:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I practically fell out of my chair reading this. I agree with you completely DtC. The End Times must be upon us…RUN FOR THE HILLS!! [/quote] I _told_ you that voting for Bush would lead to the Apocalypse! :eek: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/30 "2006-03-09T21:02:52Z")
**DtC** , as another habitual Bush basher hailing him for being sensible this time, all I can say is [nya nya nya, beat you by two weeks](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7130686&postcount=124): > [@me](#): > > Fair play to Bush for keeping a level head. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/31 "2006-03-09T21:21:34Z")
[QUOTE=Danalan] UAE terror connection cites: [1 USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-09-02-terror-dubai_x.htm) [2 Seattle Times](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002824354_webbinladen23.html?syndication=rss) [3 (Foil hats on, but true enough)](http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-531) [/QUOTE] Your cites seem to counter your points. They were associating with Bin Laden in 99 but have worked closely with us since 2001 from one and the other shows them to be guilty of having an open society. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/32 "2006-03-09T21:25:24Z")
Holy shit, I’ve now agreed with **DtC** in **two** threads today. What’s more, one was about politics and one was about religion. I’m feeling a little dizzy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/33 "2006-03-09T21:39:44Z")
Chalk me up as another leftist who thinks Bush is doing the right thing here and who thinks that the Democratic leadership is behaving contemptibly. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/34 "2006-03-09T21:45:33Z")
**Danalan** , you’re aware that the September 11 hijackers lived in the U.S. for some time and got their pilot training here, right? Does that make the U.S. a backer of terrorism, such that every middle manager at every American multinational is plotting perfidy in whatever country they live? Your claim that “an english-speaking American middle manager will be less likely to pass shipping manifests on to a terrorist than an arabic-speaking UAE middle manager” illustrates the degree of hysteria around this whole issue. Even if I were to accept this absurd claim, I can’t even begin to imagine what use shipping manifests would be to the terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/35 "2006-03-09T21:46:10Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Your cites seem to counter your points. They were associating with Bin Laden in 99 but have worked closely with us since 2001 from one and the other shows them to be guilty of having an open society. [/QUOTE] The weak point that the xenophobes are seeking to exploit is that there may indeed be some individuals in Dubai who are - or work on behalf of - Terrorist organizations. But this is a far cry from Dubai being _complicit_ in the actions of these groups/individuals. **Danalan** - thank you for showing the good form to provide cites. I think that the cites everyone wants are the ones that show that the UAE "has unabashed ties to international terrorism, at the highest levels. ". Assuming that this can be proved, the rest of your assertion seems to logically follow, but this premise needs to be supported. Your United Press International link merely mentions that according to the 9/11 Commission, there seemed to be ties between UAE and Terrorist Organizations (no elaboration on what those ties were), and that this finding of the 9/11 Commission was pivotal to the debate. It merely restates your case; it doesn’t support it. And just like your later cites (which **What Exit** commented on), the UPI cite goes on to say in the very next paragraph: > [@](#): > > Since the terrorist attacks, it [the UAE) has cut ties with the Taliban, frozen just over $1 million in alleged terrorist funding, and given the United States key military basing and over-flight rights. At any given time, there are 77,000 U.S. service members on leave in the United Arab Emirates, according to the Pentagon. . Do you have anything else to support your premise? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/36 "2006-03-09T21:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] It apparently [isn’t an issue to Israel](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_mi_ea/dubai_ports_israel_boycott_3), why should it be an issue in the US? [/QUOTE] My point is not that Israel doesn’t care, but that it may be illegal under federal law to do business with a company that doesn’t recognize Israel. I was looking for clarification on that, on if such a federal law actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/37 "2006-03-09T21:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Your cites seem to counter your points. They were associating with Bin Laden in 99 but have worked closely with us since 2001 from one and the other shows them to be guilty of having an open society. Jim [/QUOTE] In the book “Ghost Wars” by Steve Coll (?sp?), there are relatively detailed accounts of the CIA tracking Bin Laden and their various attempts on his life. In one case in the mid-90’s Clinton would not authorize the missile attack on a hunting party in the desert because Bin Laden was hanging out with a number of members of the UAE royalty. Do you think that those friends of UBL simply dropped him? Do you not think that at the same time some people in the UAE are working with us there can be others in powerful positions that are not? Given the past history, I think it’s wise not to take the chance. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/38 "2006-03-09T21:56:35Z")
Chalk another one up from the center-left contingent who agrees with **Diogenes** on this issue and has since it first came up. Xenophobic, racist scaremongering all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/39 "2006-03-09T22:03:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Your claim that “an english-speaking American middle manager will be less likely to pass shipping manifests on to a terrorist than an arabic-speaking UAE middle manager” illustrates the degree of hysteria around this whole issue. Even if I were to accept this absurd claim, I can’t even begin to imagine what use shipping manifests would be to the terrorists. [/QUOTE] It also ignores the fact that these American-run ports would still be accepting cargo _from_ points abroad, where we’d have no control or assurance over who has access to the ship and its containers whatsoever. As well as the fact that the day-to-day business of running the port, in both blue and white-collar jobs, would still fall upon local American labor. It’s simply bizarre that the issue that’s finally turning Congress and the American people against Bush is one I actually support him on. It’s just amazing that after all the shit he’s pulled this, _this_ is what we’re actually going to get him on. People actually want the guy to spy on other Americans without a warrant, and Congress is happy to comply, but God forbid he allow a private business deal, with very little actual repercussions on port security, to come through. Sigh. More and more, I just don’t _get_ this country, you know? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716/40 "2006-03-09T22:13:23Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] My point is not that Israel doesn’t care, but that it may be illegal under federal law to do business with a company that doesn’t recognize Israel. I was looking for clarification on that, on if such a federal law actually exists. [/QUOTE] Unlikely. If it were so, we probaby couldn’t buy any oil! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-is-right-and-the-democrats-are-full-of-shit/347716.md?page=3)