# Bush-Kerry Debate: Part Deux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302 "2004-10-09T00:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/561 "2004-10-09T02:44:31Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > But there are many more voters that have TVs instead of computers w/internet. Why not at least give an outline of his plan on TV, instead of repeating things from the last debate? Maybe he doesn’t have time to go over the entire plan in detail? Off-topic: I like Laura’s shawl, that’s cute. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/562 "2004-10-09T02:44:50Z")
> [@Fretful Porpentine](#): > > Another radio listener, and I’d give it to Kerry, except Bush seemed to make a major comeback toward the end. There were a few real “Thank you, Jesus!” moments (from my solidly Democratic perspective) in the middle, when Bush seemed to be going into full-on rant mode, but in the end, it’ll be the last half-hour or so people remember, and he came across decently then. > > Kerry sounded OK, and he gets major props from me for acknowledging that atheism is a legitimate worldview, but there were definitely some extremely evasive answers in there. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/563 "2004-10-09T02:45:02Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > Thank Buddha-statue you showed up to show us the errors of our ways. For a second there, I thought I had an actual opinion. What was I thinking? Of course Bush is never wrong, always wins, and has a ten inch penis. well, Bush is a ninny, but judging by that bulge in his flight suit during the “Mission Accomplished” photo op, I believe he has a 10-inch dick. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/564 "2004-10-09T02:46:18Z")
Bush was shrill and rude and came across as his usual shallow-thinking, dead-on-his-feet, dogmatic self. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/565 "2004-10-09T02:46:18Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > But the president said nothing even remotely to do with substantive due process, what he said was: > “The Constitution of the United States says we’re all – you know, it doesn’t say that. It doesn’t speak to the equality of America.” That just sounded weird. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/566 "2004-10-09T02:46:20Z")
I think the key is that Kerry made less visible mistakes. In the veep debate, I thought it was pretty much a draw. The news over the next couple of days only discussed how Cheney had met Edwards and tied Iraq to al qaeda, etc. which were things he denied during the debate. In this area, Kerrys low key delivery and relatively boring persona help him. He’ll take a bit on the late night shows, but he flies under the radar as far as the media goes. Of course, we won’t know for sure for another couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/567 "2004-10-09T02:46:24Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > well, Bush is a ninny, but judging by that bulge in his flight suit during the “Mission Accomplished” photo op, I believe he has a 10-inch dick. Cod piece, my good man. Cod piece. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/568 "2004-10-09T02:46:50Z")
> [@Random](#): > > Hmm… I don’t claim to know have any particular expertise on this issue, and this may be the first time I disagree with **Bricker** and one of the few times I agree with **Guin** , but I don’t thinbk sh’e entirely wrong: > > “4. A free negro of the African race, whose ancestors were brought to this country and sold as slaves, is not a ‘citizen’ within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States. > 5. When the Constitution was adopted, they were not regarded in any of the States as members of the community which constituted the State, and were not numbered among its ‘people or citizens.’ Consequently, the special rights and immunities guarantied to citizens do not apply to them. And not being ‘citizens’ within the meaning of the Constitution, they are not entitled to sue in that character in a court of the United States, and the Circuit Court has not jurisdiction in such a suit.” > > Cite: [Touro Law - Page Not Found](http://www.tourolaw.edu/patch/Scott/) Good grief. Are you going to cite _Miranda_ because it comments on good-cop/bad-cop tactics? There was never serious question about Negros’ standing to sue. The reason Dred Scott is a landmark case is because of the “discovery” of inextinguishable property rights IN slaves, using the rationale that has come to be known as substantive due process. That is what Dred Scott is ABOUT. Granted, it was about standing to sue, and I suppose it was about the allegation that Scott beat his wife and kids, too. But it made no great legal inroads in those areas. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/569 "2004-10-09T02:46:54Z")
One thing I was wishing Kerry would have addressed is this 1.9 million jobs in 13 months thing…If I recall correctly, this is not that much more than keeping even in terms of the growth you need because of the growing population. And, that’s during the **best** period of Bush’s Presidency. As for the debate overall, I think Kerry won but certainly not the blowout we had in the first debate. Bush was certainly much improved from last time. ---
**Author:** ![Marathon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Marathon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marathon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/570 "2004-10-09T02:47:23Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Kerry was more poised but, in this format, Bush’s restlessness and passion worked for him. I absolutely agree, though I am loathe to admit it. There were points during the evening that even _I_ would have sworn he knew what he was talking about. I came to my senses, though, during that one environment-related question, when he fell back on his technique of just spitting out memorized, listed bills and acts that he prepared. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/571 "2004-10-09T02:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I listened on the radio, and I think he came across poorly. Kerry only slightly better. Maybe you shouldn’t listen to me, since I’m for Kerry, but Bush came off as practically shouting at the audience through most of it. He seemed shockingly defensive, as if he assumed that the room had secretly been stacked with Kerry supporters. Meanwhile Kerry, IMO, shot himself in the foot repeatedly by ending nearly every answer with a a little tag line that sounded completely contrived. I will say that both candidates, unlike during the farcical Veep’s debate, at least attempted to answer most of the questions directly before lapsing into the usual lowest-common denom bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/572 "2004-10-09T02:48:32Z")
Can we PLEASE not talk about Bush’s genitalia? _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/573 "2004-10-09T02:48:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Can we PLEASE not talk about Bush’s genitalia? _shudder_ Yeah! Let’s stick to Derek Jeter. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/574 "2004-10-09T02:49:39Z")
Kerry’s biggest mistake: he did that “I made a mistake in how I spoke about the war; President Bush made a mistake in how he handled the war. Which is worse?” … or whatever the direct quote is. When he used that the first time, it sounded off the cuff. Now it sounds like a stand-up who’s material hasn’t changed. Although I thought it was cool (being a Kerry backer) that he got away with calling the Iraq war a “mistake” without having to defend it past Bush’s “how do you say that and lead the troops” bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/575 "2004-10-09T02:49:41Z")
So, crowd: not one of you here gives a win to Bush? What do you suppose the polls will do? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/576 "2004-10-09T02:49:46Z")
I sort of liked the remark about tax cuts for Enron. But maybe you have to live in California to understand. Deliberate rolling blackouts, rate hikes, cooking the books, investigations, indictments, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/577 "2004-10-09T02:49:59Z")
ABC “instant scientific” poll: Who won? Bush 41% Kerry 44% Tie 13% with the caveat that 3% more of those polled identified themselves as Dems than as Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/578 "2004-10-09T02:51:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, crowd: not one of you here gives a win to Bush? > > What do you suppose the polls will do? I give it a virtual push, although I though Kerry did handle the rebuttals better. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/579 "2004-10-09T02:52:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, crowd: not one of you here gives a win to Bush? > > What do you suppose the polls will do? Stagnate, I think. Even if it is my bias, and Bush won, it was not a clear and convincing victory. I expect Kerry’s gain will end, or at least slow dramatically. I still think this election will be almost as close as the last one. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/580 "2004-10-09T02:53:07Z")
Well, a tie is as good as a loss for GWB this time. The lowered expectations game isn’t working any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=30)