# Bush-Kerry Debate: Part Deux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302 "2004-10-09T00:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/581 "2004-10-09T02:54:38Z")
NBC just reported on some of the “facts” quoted and on the job issue they said that even with the new jobs in the past 13 months there is still a net loss of 821,000 jobs. They also confirmed that Bush did indeed report $84 of income from a timber industry in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/582 "2004-10-09T02:54:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, crowd: not one of you here gives a win to Bush? > > What do you suppose the polls will do? I think Bush did better, but I think Kerry won. As for the polls, I’m going to guess Kerry again. Like I said, tone matters a lot. In the beginning of the debate, Bush came across as irritable to angry. That is going to turn a lot of people off. I also think that the moment where he cut Gibson off is going to get repeated over the next few days, and that can’t be good. It’s hard to say though. Kerry stern demeanor might hurt him as well. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/583 "2004-10-09T02:55:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Maybe he doesn’t have time to go over the entire plan in detail? > > Off-topic: I like Laura’s shawl, that’s cute. That’s why I was asking for an outline, not the whole plan…give the dog(s) a bone. He’s only hurting himself by just saying that “I have a plan.” and assuming that everyone is just going over to his website and find out for themselves. All they hear is the repetitive “I have a plan.”, which does nothing for his campaign. Maybe Tereza could help out by putting a computer in every home with internet access by November 1st…maybe it would be easier than Kerry actually telling everyone on TV of his plan. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/584 "2004-10-09T02:56:18Z")
What did the debate do to the swing vote? How many Bush/Kerry supporters are activated/discouraged from showing up at the polls? Beats me. In fact, I’ve never seen a serious analysis of how a given political event affects swing and turnout. FWIW, I think these debates tend to help Kerry, since they put him on display to at least some Americans for longer than 20 seconds. In contrast, network news favors those who have mastered the short soundbite as well as Bush has. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/585 "2004-10-09T02:56:47Z")
We can debate the finer details here of _Dred Scott_ in order to strive for technical and historical accuracy. We must remember the greater electorate will not do so. Instead, they will only hear that Bush supports _Dred Scott_ and slavery. The black community should have a field day with this. ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/586 "2004-10-09T02:56:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, crowd: not one of you here gives a win to Bush? FWIW, I think it was a draw. But I also think Bush’ll win it in November. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/587 "2004-10-09T02:57:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Good grief. Are you going to cite _Miranda_ because it comments on good-cop/bad-cop tactics? > > There was never serious question about Negros’ standing to sue. The reason Dred Scott is a landmark case is because of the “discovery” of inextinguishable property rights IN slaves, using the rationale that has come to be known as substantive due process. That is what Dred Scott is ABOUT. Granted, it was about standing to sue, and I suppose it was about the allegation that Scott beat his wife and kids, too. But it made no great legal inroads in those areas. I think you’re slanting this a bit too much. The standing issue was hardly something just mentioned in passing by the Court. The bulk of the decision is about the standing issue. Cite: [Touro Law - Page Not Found](http://www.tourolaw.edu/patch/Scott/) (The cite’s for others, I know that **you** know how to find the decision.) Again, I agree with you that the main **legal** importance of the decision was cas you say. From a historical point of view, the discussion of the absolute subordination and lack of rights of blacks has more weight. And therefore, you were too dismissive of what **Guin** said. She wasn’t “wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/588 "2004-10-09T02:57:45Z")
> [@whistlepig](#): > > Bush talks slow, makes declarative statements. Kerry talks fast, references at least three times per statement. > > Bush wins. I wish that Kerry would take “Brevity is the soul of wit” to heart, because he talks and talks, and occasionally you can figure out what he means, then he continues to spew words and you drown in his verbiage again. Is Justhink a speech writer these days? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/589 "2004-10-09T02:59:05Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I think Bush did better, but I think Kerry won. > I also think that the moment where he cut Gibson off is going to get repeated over the next few days, and that can’t be good. I thought that was great! You might be the moderator, but when you cut off the president like that repeatedly, you gotta have some balls. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/590 "2004-10-09T02:59:29Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > We can debate the finer details here of _Dred Scott_ in order to strive for technical and historical accuracy. We must remember the greater electorate will not do so. Instead, they will only hear that Bush supports _Dred Scott_ and slavery. > > The black community should have a field day with this. No. If they know anything about slavery and the Dred Scott decision, they’ll know that Bush’s point is that he opposes the misapplication of the Constitution in that manner. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/591 "2004-10-09T03:01:28Z")
Hannity and Colmes cracks me up. Did you know that Bush “clearly dominated” and Kerry was “entirely on the defensive”? And that the lower than expect job created this month is just a “game of expectations”? Hannity: “Tonight was a very strong night for the President.” Up next, Hannity blows the President in effigy. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/592 "2004-10-09T03:03:25Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I think Bush did better, but I think Kerry won Your flip flopping ! 🙂 (joke) To me it seemed a tie… I was scared by Bush going berserk at the beggining ! I wanna see how that comes across… angry guy… Kerry did wiggle around too much in some issues. I think he did well in the abortion issue… but pro-lifers are way to tough a crowd to change their votes… but he did come across as respectful. Kerry also seemed quite informed in many “technical” issues of healtcare and medicare. These are issues I know little about (I’m not american)… so Kerry might have been lying through his teeth but he did seem to know a lot about them. I would venture that people who also don’t know a lot about it (most americans hehe) would see Kerry as “smarter”… do “simple” americans value these topics as voting issues ? ``` Bush didn't attack as much... and I always feel going on the offensive makes you look bad. Kerry did come as attacking too much. Bush was on the defensive... but that didn't hurt him as much this time around. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/593 "2004-10-09T03:03:27Z")
Did anyone ever figure out what the scoop was n that lumber company? Does Bush own one or not? ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/594 "2004-10-09T03:05:03Z")
Sorry, Hannity, but the public does want to ride on your spin cycle this time. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/595 "2004-10-09T03:05:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Did anyone ever figure out what the scoop was n that lumber company? Does Bush own one or not? [http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265) Ctrl/Command-F for “timber” ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/596 "2004-10-09T03:06:20Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Your flip flopping ! 🙂 (joke) Actually, I realized how that looked after I hit submit :smack: What I meant was that I thought Bush did better than he did in the last debate. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/597 "2004-10-09T03:06:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Bush didn’t attack as much… Hell…that’s just about all he did. Kerry voted this way…Kerry voted that way. It’s all he knows how to do. When you can’t speak well of your own record…attack your opponents. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/598 "2004-10-09T03:07:18Z")
Kerry took up Cheney’s suggestion to look it up in [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org). ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/599 "2004-10-09T03:09:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Did anyone ever figure out what the scoop was n that lumber company? Does Bush own one or not? My guess is that he got a dividend from stock. It would be ridiculous if he owned a major share of that company and only got a nominal dividend of $84…usually, you transfer a profit/loss much larger than that. ---
**Author:** ![singersargent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@singersargent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singersargent)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/600 "2004-10-09T03:11:21Z")
I just don’t understand how this race can still be so close. Kerry is slugging away & I sure hope it’s making a difference, but voters for each political party seem so entrenched. It seems like it’s to the point where one of the candidates would have to kill a baby on live T.V. for some voters to change their minds. So many of us are here ridiculing Bush & yet almost half the country is still going to vote for him. So many other countries think Bush is a ridiculous yokel, but he does still have strong supoort here, despite foreign & domestic pratfalls. I don’t understand it. No matter who wins this 2004 election it’s going to be another squeaker. Makes me wonder how either as President can bring people together in the next four years. I can’t help but wonder if the Congress will be Republican after this election, but it’s going to continue to be an uphill battle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=31)