# Bush-Kerry Debate: Part Deux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302 "2004-10-09T00:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/621 "2004-10-09T04:12:28Z")
**I Love Me, Vol. 1** > [@](#): > > Does what I say on this board tonight really influence you in any way whatsoever … If so, then you are pathetic. **Bricker** > [@](#): > > You’re an idiot. **Tigers2B1** > [@](#): > > Well you board of Bush bashing whore mongers [Moderator Hat ON] I am–for now–keeping kibbitzing threads about major political events in this forum. However, _you are still in Great Debates and you WILL obey the forum rules!_ [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/622 "2004-10-09T04:40:14Z")
The after takes. Loved Hannity saying over and over again Bush won the debate. Someone asked Hilary if Kerry was more liberal than her, and she totally changed the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/623 "2004-10-09T04:41:17Z")
Boy, am I glad I edited out the names before submitted my “foaming at the mouth” post. **Bricker** you’re making too much of a habit of these gracious concessions lately. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/624 "2004-10-09T04:42:26Z")
Well, well, well. I know this is too early to tell for sure, but a quick look at [cnn.com](http://cnn.com), [msnbc.com](http://msnbc.com), and [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com) gives the edge to Kerry by (at around 12:35 a.m. Eastern Time) 79 percent, 70 percent, and – on CBS – 87.97 percent. Meanwhile, at [the Electoral Vote Predictor site](http://www.electoral-vote.com/), a rash of new state polls (“48 new polls today in a total of 25 states”) has Kerry surging into the lead over Bush in the Electoral Collge (with due caveats on the thinness of the lead). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/625 "2004-10-09T04:43:20Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > …Loved Hannity saying over and over again Bush won the debate… Didn’t see that. Which channel carries _Hannity and His Bitch_? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/626 "2004-10-09T04:44:59Z")
On Yahoo, at quarter of 1:00, it’s Kerry 65 percent to Bush’s 33 percent – and 4 percent say a tie? Does not compute… does not compute… ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/627 "2004-10-09T04:45:40Z")
Er, (treading lightly), I’d like to question this statement by GWBush from the Washington Post transcript: **Mr. Bush --going it alone. You tell Tony Blair we’re going alone. Tell Tony Blair we’re going alone. Tell Servio Berlusconi we’re going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski we’re going alone. We’ve got 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we’re going alone, to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say, you know, you’re going alone. And people listen. They’re sacrificing with us.** Mr. President - they certainly are sacrificing with us, down to the latest beheading. However, you mentioned Tony’s name twice in that list of allies. And that’s a rather short list, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/628 "2004-10-09T04:47:14Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > …I know this is too early to tell for sure, but a quick look at [cnn.com](http://cnn.com), [msnbc.com](http://msnbc.com), and [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com) gives the edge to Kerry by (at around 12:35 a.m. Eastern Time) 79 percent, 70 percent, and – on CBS – 87.97 percent… That _can’t_ be! Not saying I wouldn’t just love it half to death, but 70-80%? For real? Now, Universe, I know I haven’t been a very good Pantheist, but if you could just give me a sign… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/629 "2004-10-09T04:53:15Z")
I think it was a strong Kerry victory. I don’t think you look very presidential shouting down Charlie Gibson, nor in general shouting at a town hall crowd. I think that “internets” was a bigger gaffe than might be apparent because it came in the midst of his attempt to assuage twenty year olds (for whom the internet is a familiar entity not confused with internets) that they will not be drafted. If there was equity in this sort of thing, Bush would be taken to the woodshed for saying that he “proposed the hydrogen car” in the same way that Gore was lambasted for having taken the initiative in creating the internet. Kerry was collected, Presidential, used people’s names, linked responses together very well in a way that conveyed that he was listening and integrating themes and questions, and highlighted the myriad failures that are President Bush. Bush was twichy, did this thing with his jaw (which Bill Cowher can get away with better than a sitting president), made some odd statements, still left some dead air at times, and typically responded with generalities or vague answers that paled in comparison to the specifics and organized responses of Kerry. Kerry is no Clinton, but he did show a comprehension of the issues that Bush simply cannot match. I think Bush’s lack of a response on the final “mistakes” question was quite a failure - they should have been prepared for a question like this from regular folks, who honestly believe that people make mistakes. I don’t think that secret mistakes on making a few appointments is going to seem like a reasonable response. Kerry should have essentially just let that one sit, saying something brief that links his response to the fantasy world theme. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/630 "2004-10-09T04:56:23Z")
Oh, I forgot - and for **Bricker** , just like last time, the numbers go up for Kerry afterward. However, disentangling the effect of the debate performance from the jobs numbers, the Bremer statement, and the WMD report will be somewhat of a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/631 "2004-10-09T05:08:32Z")
Kerry’s got the edge in every poll I’ve looked at so far. Even Fox News has Kerry at 52-48. It’s definitely not a Bush victory. I think his screaming at the moderator and the audience really exposed more of his true personality than he intended to. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/632 "2004-10-09T05:09:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That _can’t_ be! Not saying I wouldn’t just love it half to death, but 70-80%? For real? > > Now, Universe, I know I haven’t been a very good Pantheist, but if you could just give me a sign… As of about 1:00 a.m. (what am I doing up so late?): [cnn.com](http://cnn.com): Bush 20%, Kerry 78%, draw 2% [msnbc.com](http://msnbc.com): Bush 31%, Kerry 69% [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com): Bush 11.51%, Kerry 88.00%, draw 0.49% Yahoo! News: Bush 33%, Kerry 64%, draw 4% (still over 100% there :dubious: ) And just for chuckles, from the Boston Globe’s website, [boston.com](http://boston.com): Bush 10.5%, Kerry 86.9%, draw 2.75 ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/633 "2004-10-09T05:10:32Z")
My husband was undecided but favoring Bush. Actually, he was **really** angry about a Kerry campaign ad that was aired earlier today – a woman in tears who had lost a son in Iraq, and for what? Hubby’s a combat veteran (just one Purple Heart) and that ad just hit him wrong. He thought it was “playing dirty”, using a survivor’s grief to get votes. But he’s leaning toward Kerry now, and partly because of Kerry’s suggestion (plan?) to let people aged 55-64 buy into Medicare. (That’s our age.) Heck, it might not be a that good an idea, but at least it shows some concern on Kerry’s part. Bush never did say anything tonight about what he’d do to help with rising medical costs, except for a comment about trial lawyers and frivolous malpractice lawsuits. Whaddya wanna bet he asks Laura what a “tort” is, and how does one “reform” one? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/634 "2004-10-09T05:11:18Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > Cod piece, my good man. Cod piece. Not so sure about that. Ever see the man jog? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/635 "2004-10-09T05:17:39Z")
Giggling fits that last longer than four hours require immediate medical attention. Check with your doctor to be sure you are healthy enough for spasms of optimism. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/636 "2004-10-09T05:21:54Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > As of about 1:00 a.m. (what am I doing up so late?): > > [cnn.com](http://cnn.com): Bush 20%, Kerry 78%, draw 2% > > [msnbc.com](http://msnbc.com): Bush 31%, Kerry 69% > > [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com): Bush 11.51%, Kerry 88.00%, draw 0.49% > > Yahoo! News: Bush 33%, Kerry 64%, draw 4% (still over 100% there :dubious: ) > > And just for chuckles, from the Boston Globe’s website, [boston.com](http://boston.com): > Bush 10.5%, Kerry 86.9%, draw 2.75 Those are online polls, though, right? ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/637 "2004-10-09T05:22:30Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > As of about 1:00 a.m. (what am I doing up so late?): Don’t all those critters keep you up late anyway? 😃 For those who prefer grades to percentages, CNN users are rating **Bush a C-** and **Kerry an A-.** ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/638 "2004-10-09T05:24:24Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > My husband was undecided but favoring Bush. Actually, he was **really** angry about a Kerry campaign ad that was aired earlier today – a woman in tears who had lost a son in Iraq, and for what? Hubby’s a combat veteran (just one Purple Heart) and that ad just hit him wrong. He thought it was “playing dirty”, using a survivor’s grief to get votes.[/qb] Are you sure that’s an actual Kerry ad? Because it’s not anywhere on his website that I’ve seen. Kerry’s not responsible for the third party advertising, some of which crosses all sorts of lamentable lines. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/639 "2004-10-09T05:31:47Z")
Actual CNN/USA Today polling data [http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm) Bush 45% Kerry 37% Tie 15% ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/640 "2004-10-09T05:42:33Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Actual CNN/USA Today polling data > > [http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm) > > Bush 45% > Kerry 37% > Tie 15% Which one of the Internets are you looking at? From the page: 1. Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the better job in the debate? 2004 Oct 8 Kerry Bush Neither (vol.) Both/ equally (vol.) No opinion 47 45 1 7 \* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=33)