# Bush-Kerry Debate: Part Deux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302 "2004-10-09T00:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Spree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Spree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spree)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/641 "2004-10-09T05:43:22Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Actual CNN/USA Today polling data > > [http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm) > > Bush 45% > Kerry 37% > Tie 15% I just took a look and it’s showing: Kerry 47% Bush 45% Neither 1% Tie 7% Is this a continuously evolving poll? ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/642 "2004-10-09T05:46:19Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Actual CNN/USA Today polling data > > [http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm) > > Bush 45% > Kerry 37% > Tie 15% Or… Bush 45% Kerry 47% [http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/second-debate.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/643 "2004-10-09T05:47:48Z")
> [@Spree](#): > > I just took a look and it’s showing: > > Kerry 47% > Bush 45% > Neither 1% > Tie 7% > > Is this a continuously evolving poll? See, I missed your post…and no, it’s not evolving, because we posted the same numbers! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/644 "2004-10-09T05:53:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy > …I know this is too early to tell for sure, but a quick look at [cnn.com](http://cnn.com), [msnbc.com](http://msnbc.com), and [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com) gives the edge to Kerry by (at around 12:35 a.m. Eastern Time) 79 percent, 70 percent, and – on CBS – 87.97 percent… All that means is that the Democrats are better at spamming internet polls. Those polls are worthless. No one watching those debates is going to believe that an unbiased sampling of the population throught that Kerry won it by an 88-12 margin. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/645 "2004-10-09T05:54:13Z")
Not evolving: On the top it says: 0/09/2004 - Updated 12:54 AM ET which is about an hour ago. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/646 "2004-10-09T05:56:09Z")
> [@Spree](#): > > I just took a look and it’s showing: > > Kerry 47% > Bush 45% > Neither 1% > Tie 7% > > Is this a continuously evolving poll? No, the poll is not evolving. It would appear **flickster** is misreading the lines. Bush had 37% 2004 Sept 30 Bush had 45% 2004 Oct 8 Not sure where the 15% tie comes from though. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/647 "2004-10-09T05:56:48Z")
Does anyone have problems with Kerry stating that he’s Catholic, considers that life starts at conception, yet supports federally funded abortions and stem-cell research? I do. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/648 "2004-10-09T05:57:04Z")
Well, I missed the debate tonight unfortunately. I was out of town for a wedding, and only just got home. I’m also drunker than a skunk ALREADY, without playing the drinking games. I obviously can’t comment about the debate…I just wanted to comment about the posts in the thread real quick. I’ve just read through aprox. 12 pages of complete kumbya Bush bashing at its best…and in the final two pages, if I’m getting this right (and disreguarding the ‘online polls’ which handly gave the win to Edwards over Chaney in the VP debate :rolleyes: ) people are now saying…its a draw??? Something like 10 pages of Kerry making Bush his ‘bitch’ in various and colorful ways…and then folks come out and say well maybe its a draw??? I remember similar things in the Edawards/Chaney debate thread (which I did see and seemed to ME to be pretty much a draw)…and similar results from on-line polls. So how am I to take this? I’m starting to think that the way to take this is to read a (political/Bush) thread (on this board) and then pick the opposite of whatever the overall consensus is. Can no one on this board at least ATTEMPT to be rational and non-partisan, to analyze without the requisite ‘shrubya’ digs, blah blah blah? Christ, I originally came on this board because of my respect for the posters here…especially in GD. But when it comes to Bush, I don’t think there are many posters that can analyze the man from a dispassionate and objective view point. ☹ Well, I’m probably drunker than any of the debate drinking game people here, so I’ve probably gotten myself into all kinds of trouble from the mods…and I didn’t really add anything to the debate analysis (since I didn’t see it), so I’ll sign off here. I’m really disappointed…not that I’m sure anyone will shed any tears over it. Anyone know if anyone is posting the debate on the web so I can watch it for myself tomorrow? -XT ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/649 "2004-10-09T06:05:08Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Does anyone have problems with Kerry stating that he’s Catholic, considers that life starts at conception, yet supports federally funded abortions and stem-cell research? I do. No. It just means that he doesn’t think all taxpayers have to agree with his particular religious beliefs. I find it incredibly comforting, personally. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/650 "2004-10-09T06:05:47Z")
Am I the only one who thinks Bush alienated a fair numberof undecided voters tonight? The guy was a classic example of barely-contained anger management; I _don’t_ think undecided voters are out there going, “Yeah! I want a borderline psycho with his finger on the button!” 😕 And I will readily admit that Bush did better tonight than he did last week. But then, considering how badly he cratered last week, the only way he could have done worse tonight was to not show up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/651 "2004-10-09T06:06:34Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Does anyone have problems with Kerry stating that he’s Catholic, considers that life starts at conception, yet supports federally funded abortions and stem-cell research? I do. Nope, I don’t have a problem with either of those issues. Abortion = choice, and stem-research could potentially provide us with cures for many diseases. Politics and religion don’t mix. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/652 "2004-10-09T06:09:23Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Does anyone have problems with Kerry stating that he’s Catholic, considers that life starts at conception, yet supports federally funded abortions and stem-cell research? I do. No. > [@John Kerry](#): > > But I can’t take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn’t share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can’t do that. IOW, he’s actually going to respect the fact that not everybody in this country shares his religious views. I know, it’s wacky. But it’s so crazy, that it just might work! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/653 "2004-10-09T06:11:51Z")
According to [http://andrewsullivan.com/](http://andrewsullivan.com/) ## ABC’S INSTA-POLL: Kerry 44; Bush 41; Draw 13. On Abortion: Mario Cuomo was once challenged to defend his position on abortion. He did so; the transcript is here: [http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/cuomoreligiousbelief.htm](http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/cuomoreligiousbelief.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/654 "2004-10-09T06:21:53Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > Does anyone have problems with Kerry stating that he’s Catholic, considers that life starts at conception, yet supports federally funded abortions and stem-cell research? I do. Do you have problems with pacifists having to pay taxes for the military? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/655 "2004-10-09T06:33:37Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks Bush alienated a fair numberof undecided voters tonight? The guy was a classic example of barely-contained anger management; I _don’t_ think undecided voters are out there going, “Yeah! I want a borderline psycho with his finger on the button!” 😕 > And I will readily admit that Bush did better tonight than he did last week. But then, considering how badly he cratered last week, the only way he could have done worse tonight was to not show up. 😉 I think Kerry alienated a couple hundred Missourians (sp?) when he made the comment that only 3 people in the room (him, Bush and the mod) will be the only ones paying higher taxes, inferring that they are the ONLY ones there making more than $200K, as if everyone else was trailer trash. “Elitest” comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/656 "2004-10-09T06:34:09Z")
> [@George Bush](#): > > "My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. **That’s the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That’s the kind of mindset that said, ‘Let’s keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well.’ Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working."** (my bolding) Uh, George, did you happen to catch the Duelfer Report? You know, the one _you_ comissioned? 'cause it says right – just like in the one you commissioned _before_ that one – there that the sanctions were working really, \really\ well. In fact, Saddam had absolutely NO WMDs to give to ANYONE. Tell me again, how’d this guy get into the WH? Never mind. Don’t. That’s one nightmare I can do without. As for the debate as a whole, if you’re into raging lunatics (steroid shots over the past week?) spewing lie after lie, no question, Bush is your man. Could Kerry have lowered the hammer on him even harder? No doubt – I was salivating at some of the openings myself. But one needs to remember he’s not debating for his partisan base (those are a given) but rather for that diminishing number of idio…er, voters, that can’t seem to make up their fucking minds and whose ultimate decision might well determine the final outcome of this election. From that prism, I thought he was great and very much in control throughout the proceedings. If there was a guy out there looking and acting Presidential, it certainly wasn’t the incumbent. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/657 "2004-10-09T06:42:40Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Do you have problems with pacifists having to pay taxes for the military? Kerry using the “Catholic” card to pander for votes, was insulting at best…and you **Blalron** , know where I stand on the abortion issue. As for the pacifist paying for the military…apples and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/658 "2004-10-09T06:44:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I think Kerry alienated a couple hundred Missourians (sp?) when he made the comment that only 3 people in the room (him, Bush and the mod) will be the only ones paying higher taxes, inferring that they are the ONLY ones there making more than $200K, as if everyone else was trailer trash. “Elitest” comes to mind. I am a recent medical school graduate, one of those categories that is generally throught of as the upper division of incomes. Unless my career as a writer takes off in the next few years, I doubt that I will ever make more than $200,000 a year. ---
**Author:** ![Tamarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tamarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamarin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/659 "2004-10-09T06:45:23Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > I think Kerry alienated a couple hundred Missourians (sp?) when he made the comment that only 3 people in the room (him, Bush and the mod) will be the only ones paying higher taxes, inferring that they are the ONLY ones there making more than $200K, as if everyone else was trailer trash. “Elitest” comes to mind. Oh, if only I was the trailer trash that made $100k a year. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302/660 "2004-10-09T06:49:47Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > “Elitest” comes to mind. Bizarre, when I think of “elitest,” nothing comes to mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kerry-debate-part-deux/268302.md?page=34)