200K per year as a family income isn’t all THAT high. It’s the upper 2%. You don’t have to be a tycoon - A family with a lawyer in it, or a doctor, or two senior professionals. Small business owners.
And of the class of people that were in that audience (mostly middle class), the percentage would probably be closer to 5%. There were probably half a dozen people in that audience who made more than 200K.
Kerry wants federally funded abortions? He wants the federal government to pay for abortions? Can I get cite on that?
I respect him for drawing a distrinction between his personal beliefs and what the law of the land should be.
Would a Jehovah’s Witness, whose beliefs say that blood transfusions are against Gods Will, have to enforce that belief on others when he is in public office? Would he have to veto any public funding for blood transfusions in order to have any integrity? Or is it possible that he can make a distinction between his faith and his government?
And alienating 1 or 2 percent of the population is going to hurt him how? Bush probably already has the obscenely rich vote sewed up; I think it’s pretty smart of Kerry to reach out to the middle class. Like me. 
To be precise, he refused to say he’s against it, which is really a distinction without a difference. I don’t have a written cite, but it was in response to a direct question posed in the debate.
Yeah - he even mentioned atheists and agnostics. Woo hoo! I’m liking this guy more and more.
The NBC affiliate in Reno had a panel of voters watching the debate, and the undecided voters were swung significantly toward Kerry. Not a scientific measure or a statistically significant poll by any means, but it’s still encouraging.
And this from much earlier in the debate (I know it’s a little late, but why not):
Off-road diesel fuel is used in mainly in construction and farm equipment. The fuel is higher in sulfur and other contaminants than overh the road fuel, and isn’t subject to the same highway taxes that over the road fuel is. I think diesel engines designed in equipment that uses off-road fuel are subject to different emissions standards, but I’m not sure.
I’m with the majority here and with what a lot of the pundits are saying. Kerry won. Bush was wobbly but less than in D1. Kerry could have been a little sharper and more aggressive.
All in all, I doubt that Bush, who does not overall seem presidential, barely sane for that matter, is going to convince any undecideds with this kind of schtick. Kerry, on the other hand, can turn a few with this kind of performance.
Since this is in actuality a sort of combination Pit thread and IMHO Poll, I’ll just state my opinion: Bush did much better this time, and he did better than Kerry. Most memorable line of the evening? Bush: “I own a lumber business? That’s news to me.”
That did kinda crack me up.
“Want some wood?”
But someone posted the cite about what Kerry was talking about. Bush doesn’t own a lumber company, but he did make that $84 off a lumber company at one point and it was pointed out that that could have entitled him to whatever small business tax break he was talking about. Not that actually took advantage of it as far as I know.
I liked where Kerry told Bush that he did something bush never has, balanced the budget.
I think in some ways Bush did better. He was more animated, played to the audience a bit better, and had a better grasp of the issues than he did before.
In some ways he did much worse. The interruption about the coalition was pretty bad, and Kerry made it worse by pointing out that eight of them have dropped out including Poland I believe. When Bush challenged Kerry on his record and he made the balanced budget remark. Lastly Bush calling out Kerry on the body armor vote and Kerry explaining it.
I don’t think Kerry has dominated the debates, but he really hasn’t had to. Bush is making to many errors in tone. The poll numbers reflect that. He has been less “presidential” than Kerry.
I read somewhere that in the Kennedy/Nixon debate, nobody remembers the issues but everyone remembers how much Nixon sweated. Bush needs to get his shizzle together for the next debate before he loses too much ground.
This was entertaining. I even left the Yankee game for this. I was reminded of the first Gore debate where “the sigh” was the story. His handlers made him over compensate and the story was how did Gore look and behave in the second debate. Now Bush’s handlers have him overcompensate too. Instead of looking like he was on a lithium drip, they seem to have injected the testosterone of twenty bulls. He seemed to shout and in my opinion was quite rude to the moderator and trampled all over the rules. He still seems to be in denial over the news of the week- the report on WMD and the jobs report. In his closing statement, I was watching the people behind him. They were nearly all scowling at Bush and looking with great contempt.
Kerry seemed much more in control of his emotions and for the most part acted presidential rather than senatorial. I thought he needed to explain that the timber company quote was not pulled out of his tush. Pro-choicers may have been left unsatisfied with his answer on abortion, but where else are they going to go?
The most astute comment I heard was from Jeff Greenfield. Bush played to his base, Kerry to the middle. And I think that’s true. Bush gives the standard right wing answers in stark black and white. Kerry admits to the shades of gray and is less offensive to those that disagree with him about an issue. With Bush, it’s agree with me or you’re in bed with Satan. With Kerry, it’s if you don’t agree with me I respect that but here’s my reasoning. So I think Bush is cutting off the middle, Kerry is embracing the middle. I’m looking for a minor Kerry bounce on this debate. Less so than the first, but also less needed than the first. Bush is looking frustrated and desperate.
Do Kerry and Bush live in the same world? Really-- they’re just so very far apart on so many issues that it’s tough to believe they’re both looking at the same set of data. It did make for a strong, interesting debate to watch.
This is what makes the very existence of such a creature as the “undecided voter” almost unfathomable. To be undecided, it would be necessary for you to have none of your own opinions about much of anything.
He did? I heard him make a very strong point that it would not be fair, given that abortion is a legal right, to have it be the exclusive province of the wealthy, so that he would allow federal funds to pay for it.
It happens to be true. maybe Bush is unaware of it but he does have part ownership of a timber growing company and he does qualify himself as a small business.
What a novel idea, someone who respects other opinions and beliefs, even if he doesn’t share them.
You’re grasping at straws.
Bush has used the “christian” card for the past four years. How is that any different?
Bush by playing to his base, and taking the “either you’re with me or against me” tone is hurting himself. His base is already convinced; he needs to convince the middle. Kerry is going after the middle. Both bases are still pretty even, it is the middle that will decide the election.