# Bush knew Guantanamo prisoners were innocent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020 "2010-04-14T02:44:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/21 "2010-04-14T22:00:52Z")
Did they get to keep their orange jumpsuits? You’d get a bomb for them on eBay. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/22 "2010-04-14T22:09:56Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Look, we can’t focus on the past. We need to keep moving forward! I don’t know if this is a whoosh to me, but for the most part I agree. I’m sure I’d feel differently if it was me or my dog got locked up in the Gitmo. But as it wasn’t, there’s a lot we can do about tomorrow and comparatively little we can undo from yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/23 "2010-04-15T02:57:28Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Did they get to keep their orange jumpsuits? You’d get a bomb for them on eBay. Worst post of the thread, by far. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/24 "2010-04-15T12:18:52Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > Worst post of the thread, by far. No, that would be yours, sir. Well done, you’ve just raised the bar beyond the scope of all but the dumbest dopers. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/25 "2010-04-15T12:47:31Z")
I lean (emphasis on lean) conservative, and there’s no way in hell I’d defend Gitmo and what went on there. Talk about fanning the flames of terrorism. Ditto Abu Ghraib. What colossal fuckups those were/are. I thought Obama was going to close Gitmo? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/26 "2010-04-15T13:14:39Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I thought Obama was going to close Gitmo? Turns out that [Republicans like evil American gulags](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/15/2873344.htm?section=justin): > [@](#): > > US attorney-general Eric Holder says the Obama administration is still waiting for Congress to approve funding to set up an alternative prison in Illinois. > > “We will close Guantanamo as quickly as we can, as soon as we can,” > [@](#): > > It took a while for people to notice, but in the last few months, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has made 16 – yes, 16 – speeches on the Senate floor questioning the wisdom of Barack Obama’s decision to close the U.S. terrorist detention facility at Guantanamo Bay. McConnell started January 22, the day the president issued an executive order declaring that Gitmo will be closed within a year. McConnell is still going. > > “Sometimes it takes a little bit of repetition for people to get the story,” one Republican Senate aide says. “People weren’t asking these questions back in January.” > > Read more at the Washington Examiner: [http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-the-GOP-beat-Obama-on-Guantanamo-45469512.html#ixzz0lArwCGId](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-the-GOP-beat-Obama-on-Guantanamo-45469512.html#ixzz0lArwCGId) [http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-the-GOP-beat-Obama-on-Guantanamo-45469512.html](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-the-GOP-beat-Obama-on-Guantanamo-45469512.html) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/27 "2010-04-15T13:22:32Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Turns out that [Republicans like evil American gulags](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/15/2873344.htm?section=justin): > > [http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-the-GOP-beat-Obama-on-Guantanamo-45469512.html](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-the-GOP-beat-Obama-on-Guantanamo-45469512.html) I didn’t read the entire article, but is McConnell questioning the motive for closing Gitmo within the context of where the prisoners will be relocated to, or what? There’s certainly some opposition to bringing these guys into the States, or integrating them into already existing prisons. I actually don’t have a moral objection to Guantanamo Bay as a prison that we use in terms of its location so much, but it was more about what was occurring there (torture). Which leads me to a question: if these prisoners are relocated to a facility in the USA, what’s to prevent torture from occurring at the new place? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/28 "2010-04-15T14:23:19Z")
Nothing concrete, but I suspect their lawyers and/or human rights groups will have an easier time monitoring the prisoners in civilian prisons than they did on a naval base in a remote corner of Cuba… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/29 "2010-04-15T14:28:53Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Which leads me to a question: if these prisoners are relocated to a facility in the USA, what’s to prevent torture from occurring at the new place? The Constitution? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/30 "2010-04-15T14:45:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The Constitution? The fact the country isn’t now run by swivel-eyed loons and traitors to everything the USA thinks it stands for? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/31 "2010-04-15T16:12:40Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The fact the country isn’t now run by swivel-eyed loons and traitors to everything the USA thinks it stands for? But that’s my question. So far under the Obama administration, we aren’t conducting ourselves any differently WRT the wars we are fighting, so why should I believe anything about our treatment of Gitmo detainees (whether they are on US soil or at Gitmo) will be or has been different in that time? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/32 "2010-04-15T16:30:08Z")
I thought the whole point of them not being held on US soil in the first place was that it kept them from having Constitutional protections regarding cruel and unusual punishment, habeus corpus, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/33 "2010-04-15T16:39:17Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I don’t know if this is a whoosh to me, but for the most part I agree. I’m sure I’d feel differently if it was me or my dog got locked up in the Gitmo. But as it wasn’t, there’s a lot we can do about tomorrow and comparatively little we can undo from yesterday. So your point would be “It didn’t happen to anyone I care about, so to hell with them, let’s forget this despicable event ever took place, and bury it in the memory hole so nobody has to think about who was responsible.” Those who forget the past… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/34 "2010-04-15T16:44:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I thought the whole point of them not being held on US soil in the first place was that it kept them from having Constitutional protections regarding cruel and unusual punishment, habeus corpus, etc? That was the whole point. These detainees should be able to get some sort of reparations and “revenge”, in the courts. There has to be some way to get something back, or are they just shit out of luck again? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/35 "2010-04-15T16:49:39Z")
No, labeling them “enemy combatants” instead of prisoners of war (or civilian defendants) did that. Holding them at Guantanamo just bolstered the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/36 "2010-04-15T20:55:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So your point would be “It didn’t happen to anyone I care about, so to hell with them, let’s forget this despicable event ever took place, and bury it in the memory hole so nobody has to think about who was responsible.” > > Those who forget the past… I don’t disagree, which is why my post is all waffly. Just wondering out loud about the difference between “seeking justice” and “settling deeper into an argument for its own sake.” Bush et.al. have gone back to their respective trees and realistically will not be tried for war crimes. No, we shouldn’t forget. But if justice won’t/can’t be done, then it makes sense to focus on what can be done so that it doesn’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/37 "2010-04-16T02:50:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld are still walking around free is a national disgrace. Huh? Why’s that? That’s SOP. I don’t really understand the outrage from others, either. Like, maybe if everyone involved in Vietnam were hanged or sent to jail while the media viciously ripped into them for being baby killers and rapists and destroyer of societies I could understand there being a precedent, but that wouldn’t make sense at all institutionally. Pretty much the opposite of what you want to do there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/38 "2010-04-16T02:53:38Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Huh? Why’s that? That’s SOP. I don’t really understand the outrage from others, either. Like, maybe if everyone involved in Vietnam were hanged or sent to jail while the media viciously ripped into them for being baby killers and rapists and destroyer of societies I could understand there being a precedent, but that wouldn’t make sense at all institutionally. Pretty much the opposite of what you want to do there. So we WANT them to be above the law? Lie, cheat, steal, torture and murder and they go home to live off their loot. As long as they are Republican, at least. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/39 "2010-04-16T02:57:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So we WANT them to be above the law? Lie, cheat, steal, torture and murder and they go home to live off their loot. As long as they are Republican, at least. They are the law. And if they aren’t they can change the law. That’s the funny thing about power. I can understand being mad and everything, but it seems like there’s so much impotent rage like something _should’ve_ been done, as if they keep expecting something to happen. Like Bush and pals pulled a quick one. No, not really. This is all pretty normal. And Obama is getting away with the same stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020/40 "2010-04-16T03:06:13Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > They are the law. And if they aren’t they can change the law. That’s the funny thing about power. > > I can understand being mad and everything, but it seems like there’s so much impotent rage like something _should’ve_ been done, as if they keep expecting something to happen. Like Bush and pals pulled a quick one. No, not really. This is all pretty normal. . That isn’t an excuse; it’s a condemnation of America as being evil and corrupt. And no, they are no supposed to be “the law”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-knew-guantanamo-prisoners-were-innocent/536020.md?page=3)