# Bush: Kosovo Deadline Good! Iraq Deadline Bad! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2007, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548 "2007-06-11T10:24:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/1 "2007-06-11T10:24:14Z")
[Oh wait! I didn’t really say that, did I? I guess I did.](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/world/europe/11prexy.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)(NYT link) > [@](#): > > “At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you’ve got to say, ‘Enough is enough — Kosovo is independent,’ ” Mr. Bush said. He said any plan to extend talks on Kosovo, like the one proposed recently by President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, must end with “certain independence.” > [@](#): > > But on Sunday, Mr. Bush tried to backtrack when asked when that deadline might be. “First of all, I don’t think I called for a deadline,” Mr. Bush said, during a press appearance with Mr. Berisha in the courtyard of a government ministry building. He was reminded that he had. > > “I did?” he asked, sounding surprised. “What exactly did I say? I said deadline? O.K., yes, then I meant what I said.” The reporters laughed. But, remember! Deadlines and benchmarks in Iraq are bad! They’re bad! Gee, you don’t suppose the fact that there’s _oil_ in Iraq and that Bush’s cronies are making billions off of Iraq would have anything at all to do with his not wanting firm commitments in Iraq, do you? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/2 "2007-06-11T11:20:04Z")
Deadlines for stating wars-_Good_. Deadlines for ending occupations-_Bad_. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/3 "2007-06-11T12:46:31Z")
It’s nice to know Bush is always right - even when he’s contradicting himself. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/4 "2007-06-11T14:08:35Z")
> [@](#): > > “I did?” he asked, sounding surprised. “What exactly did I say? I said deadline? O.K., yes, then I meant what I said.” :smack: I just… just… I can’t… I just… ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/5 "2007-06-11T14:14:21Z")
Why the hell are we helping the Albanians steal land from the Serbs in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/6 "2007-06-11T18:45:13Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Why the hell are we helping the Albanians steal land from the Serbs in the first place? [/QUOTE] We like underdogs? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/7 "2007-06-11T23:06:46Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] We like underdogs? [/QUOTE] Then why do we keep supporting the Simon Bar Sinisters of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/8 "2007-06-12T03:13:34Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Then why do we keep supporting the Simon Bar Sinisters of the world? [/QUOTE] We’ve got a thing for Polly Purebred? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/9 "2007-06-12T07:28:02Z")
Would Serbia (or Russia) really start another war over Kosovo? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/10 "2007-06-12T07:40:23Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Would Serbia (or Russia) really start another war over Kosovo? [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t rule it out. The Serbs did just elect an ultra-nationalist prime minister. Although he doesn’t get to be prime minister because his party couldn’t form a coalition with the other parties. (Or something like that. Hey, the news is in Bulgarian, see how good _your_ translation would be, okay?) I’m a little nervous about it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/11 "2007-06-12T12:20:04Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] We like underdogs? [/QUOTE] The Albanians are hardly innocent victims here. Whatever the wrongdoings of the Serbs may have been, it’s not as thought the Albanians didn’t spill a lot of blood, and for just as little reason. The Albanians have a vision of a “greater Albania” that basically involves grabbing huge chunks of land from their neighbors. That’s at least as sinister as anything the Serbs were plotting. The Albanians, wretched ingrates that they are, are currently suing the Netherlands for not doing enough to defend them at Srebrenica. Why is our intervention in the Balkans so one-sided and unbalanced? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/12 "2007-06-12T13:04:24Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] The Albanians, wretched ingrates that they are, are currently suing the Netherlands for not doing enough to defend them at Srebrenica. [/QUOTE] Are you being ironic or droll? That sentence doesn’t even make sense in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/13 "2007-06-12T13:08:15Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Why is our intervention in the Balkans so one-sided and unbalanced? [/QUOTE] Because in the nineties the Serbs were the expansionist, ethnic cleansing aggressors whom the gutless Europeans, including my own bastard coward govt, should have bombed the shit out of the instant Milosovic started kicking off. And yes - the Dutch should have done more. You simple do not stand to one side and let a bunch of savages stage a massacre of the people you are there to protect, no matter what the odds, no matter what your orders. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/14 "2007-06-12T14:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Because in the nineties the Serbs were the expansionist, ethnic cleansing aggressors whom the gutless Europeans, including my own bastard coward govt, should have bombed the shit out of the instant Milosovic started kicking off. And yes - the Dutch should have done more. You simple do not stand to one side and let a bunch of savages stage a massacre of the people you are there to protect, no matter what the odds, no matter what your orders. [/QUOTE] Except, you see, the Serbs didn’t just suddenly go crazy and start killing their neighbors. The Albanians were far from stainlessly pure and innocent in that conflict, and the Serbs were demonized as the sole agressors when in fact there was plenty of blame to go around. Blaming the Serbs for conflict in the Balkans is like blaming Germany for the First World War. They weren’t blameless, but they were far from being the only villains, too. Here is the classic example of how Western media misled the world and demonized the Serbs: [“The Picture that Fooled the World.”](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/BOSNIA_PHOTO/bosnia.html) And if the Dutch had killed a lot of Serbs to protect Albanians, would the Serbs then be suing the Dutch? That’s the problem with peacekeeping missions–somebody is always going to be unhappy with what you do, no matter what you do. It’s one of the reasons I wanted the US to stay out of the Balkans. And do you think these people really want justice, or are they just looking for an excuse to squeeze some money out of Westerners? These people have been fighting over this land for centuries. Do you really think you and I can sort out the rights and wrongs of it? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/15 "2007-06-12T14:08:38Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Except, you see, the Serbs didn’t just suddenly go crazy and start killing their neighbors. The Albanians were far from stainlessly pure and innocent in that conflict, and the Serbs were demonized as the sole agressors when in fact there was plenty of blame to go around. Blaming the Serbs for conflict in the Balkans is like blaming Germany for the First World War. They weren’t blameless, but they were far from being the only villains, too. Here is the classic example of how Western media misled the world and demonized the Serbs: [“The Picture that Fooled the World.”](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/BOSNIA_PHOTO/bosnia.html) And if the Dutch had killed a lot of Serbs to protect Albanians, would the Serbs then be suing the Dutch? That’s the problem with peacekeeping missions–somebody is always going to be unhappy with what you do, no matter what you do. It’s one of the reasons I wanted the US to stay out of the Balkans. And do you think these people really want justice, or are they just looking for an excuse to squeeze some money out of Westerners? These people have been fighting over this land for centuries. Do you really think you and I can sort out the rights and wrongs of it? [/QUOTE] The Bosnian war had nothing to do with Albania or Albanians. The Dutch were protecting Bosnian Muslims. Edit - and that article and picture you linked to has at its source a far-left pro serbian trotskyist group and has been debunked years ago. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/16 "2007-06-12T14:13:18Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] These people have been fighting over this land for centuries. Do you really think you and I can sort out the rights and wrongs of it? [/QUOTE] When evil bloody ethnic cleansing fascists start kicking off you damn well bet I think we should stop them in their tracks. The western policy of ‘let the bosnians hang’ was shameful. They lived together peacefully in Yugoslavia. It wasn’t until Milosovic started his Greater Serbia crap that things got bad. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/17 "2007-06-12T14:16:27Z")
And more on the root of the source you linked to. [Living Marxism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Marxism) > [@](#): > > Living Marxism was originally launched in 1988 as the journal of the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP). It was later rebranded as LM Magazine and closed in March 2000 following a libel lawsuit brought by British news corporation ITN. > > \ > > In the an issue where the journal was re-named LM, editor Mick Hume published an article by German journalist Thomas Deichmann which claimed that British Independent Television News (ITN) had fabricated its coverage in 1992 of the Bosnian war. “The picture that fooled the world” argued that ITN’s footage, in which an emaciated Bosnian Muslim man clung to barbed wire, showed not a detention centre as viewed from the outside looking in, as ITN maintained, but a safe haven for refugees as viewed from the inside looking out." [2]. > > The publishers of LM, Informinc (LM) ltd., were sued for libel by ITV and in March 2000 the magazine was forced to close. Reporters Penny Marshall and Ian Williams were each awarded £150,000 over the LM story and the magazine was also ordered to pay £75,000 for libelling ITN in a February 1997 article.[3] ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/18 "2007-06-12T14:27:19Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Edit - and that article and picture you linked to has at its source a far-left pro serbian trotskyist group and has been debunked years ago. [/QUOTE] [Oh, really?](http://www.antiwar.com/orig/judgment2.html) What does a big media company beating up a little magazine in court prove? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/19 "2007-06-12T14:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] They lived together peacefully in Yugoslavia. It wasn’t until Milosovic started his Greater Serbia crap that things got bad. [/QUOTE] If you believe that, how’d you like to trade your car for some magic beans? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548/20 "2007-06-12T14:35:48Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] [Oh, really?](http://www.antiwar.com/orig/judgment2.html) What does a big media company beating up a little magazine in court prove? [/QUOTE] That you don’t check your sources. [Jared Israel](http://home.earthlink.net/~silent_no_more99/id46.html) is a well-known lunatic and 9/11 conspiracy kook. As is his org. [Emperor’s Clothes](http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm) I know this is the Pit but surely we need to have some standards. Maybe you need to broaden your information sources on the Bosnian conflict and nail down those pesky little distinctions like ‘Bosnian’ and ‘Albanian’. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-kosovo-deadline-good-iraq-deadline-bad/407548.md?page=2)