# Bush Lied, and now we have proof. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236 "2007-11-20T21:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/1 "2007-11-20T21:33:32Z")
Former Bush White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan has released [excerpts from his yet to be published book](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312349,00.html) that charge President Bush with lying to the American public regarding the outing of Valerie Plame: > [@](#): > > “I stood at the White House briefing room podium in front of the glare of the klieg lights for the better part of two weeks and publicly exonerated two of the senior-most aides in the White House: Karl Rove and Scooter Libby,” McClellan wrote. > > "There was one problem. It was not true. > > “I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice president, the president’s chief of staff and the president himself.” Can we lynch him now? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/2 "2007-11-20T21:34:53Z")
My ennui has overwhelmed my outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/3 "2007-11-20T21:36:10Z")
That’s the final straw. There is no freakin’ way I’m voting for Bush in '08! ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/4 "2007-11-20T21:39:21Z")
Well, being involved in somebody lying isn’t the same as saying they lied. Guess we’ll have to wait till the book comes out to find out what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/5 "2007-11-20T21:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Well, being involved in somebody lying isn’t the same as saying they lied. [/QUOTE] Yes, it is. Facilitating a lie is the same as telling the the lie yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/6 "2007-11-20T21:44:23Z")
So the question for the candidates is Will your DoJ persue a treason case against them? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/7 "2007-11-20T21:48:40Z")
What do you mean, “now”? The guy has been proven a liar almost from inaugural day. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/8 "2007-11-20T21:52:41Z")
So you have _proof_ that a politician lied? read my lips… I did not have sexual… Ich bin ein Berliner Name one famous quote that is true. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/9 "2007-11-20T21:58:53Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Yes, it is. Facilitating a lie is the same as telling the the lie yourself. [/QUOTE] McCellan didn’t say Bush facilitated anything in the text you quoted. He said he was “involved”. Could mean anything. We’ll see. I’m skeptical McCellan will unambiguously say that the prez lied or told him to lie. I’m thinking the blurb that was released was selected to cause some buzz so people will buy the book, and that the rest of the text doesn’t actually make the accusation people are assuming it will. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/10 "2007-11-20T22:00:18Z")
[QUOTE=The Librarian] So you have _proof_ that a politician lied? read my lips… I did not have sexual… Ich bin ein Berliner Name one famous quote that is true. [/QUOTE] I’ll take the last part first. Ich bin ein Berliner. You can’t seriously believe that is a lie. JFK was not trying to pass himself off as a resident of Berlin. He was trying to express solidarity with the people of Berlin. BTW, they, actual Berliners, got it. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. One, technically true. Since ‘sexual relations’ have a definit legal meaning, and that meaning excluded oral sex, then it wasn’t a lie. Finally, an affair with an intern and committing treason, are on different levels of inappropriate behavior. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/11 "2007-11-20T22:02:17Z")
[QUOTE=The Librarian] So you have _proof_ that a politician lied? read my lips… I did not have sexual… Ich bin ein Berliner Name one famous quote that is true. [/QUOTE] They were all true you fucking moron. Bush Sr. probably meant it when he said he would not raise taxes, Bubba meant it in the sense of strict construction of straight missionary sex, and Kenedy meant that he was a Berliner (the city not the doughnut) in spirit. What the fuck all does it have to do with the OP? Everytime one of you cretins trundles out the “X did it too” canard an angel of truth&justice dies. We need a pukey smilie. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/12 "2007-11-20T22:04:21Z")
A nation reveals itself not only by the men it produces, but also by the men it honors, the men it remembers. JFK ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/13 "2007-11-20T22:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] McCellan didn’t say Bush facilitated anything in the text you quoted. He said he was “involved”. Could mean anything. [/QUOTE] No, it can’t. It is crystal clear that McClellan is charging Bush, Cheney, Card, and Libby with deliberate lies. Spinning it any other way is just fatuous obfuscation. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/14 "2007-11-20T22:11:47Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] No, it can’t. It is crystal clear that McClellan is charging Bush, Cheney, Card, and Libby with deliberate lies. Spinning it any other way is just fatuous obfuscation. [/QUOTE] Fear why does this suprise you? Did you think he was telling the truth about Plame, WMD, SCHIP and the many many other lies that have all been proven? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/15 "2007-11-20T22:16:11Z")
You mean “proof” has been reduced to mean this? ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/16 "2007-11-20T22:16:25Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] I’ll take the last part first. Ich bin ein Berliner. You can’t seriously believe that is a lie. JFK was not trying to pass himself off as a resident of Berlin. He was trying to express solidarity with the people of Berlin. BTW, they, actual Berliners, got it. [/QUOTE] I thought he said he was a “jelly donut”… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/17 "2007-11-20T22:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Fear why does this suprise you? Did you think he was telling the truth about Plame, WMD, SCHIP and the many many other lies that have all been proven? [/QUOTE] I have expressed no surprise at this revelation. I posted it primarily because we have had dozens of threads about the Plame case in which Bush apologists deflected criticism by waving their hands and saying, “you can’t prove a thing”. This is now settled, and I would hope those who defended Bush with regard to the Plame case would have the courage to admit they were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/18 "2007-11-20T22:23:41Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] and I would hope those who defended Bush with regard to the Plame case would have the courage to admit they were wrong. [/QUOTE] Please, don’t hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/19 "2007-11-20T22:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] No, it can’t. It is crystal clear that McClellan is charging Bush, Cheney, Card, and Libby with deliberate lies. Spinning it any other way is just fatuous obfuscation. [/QUOTE] It’s not clear. Explain how saying that someone was one of several people involved in McClellan unknowingly passing on incorrect information is the same as saying that that person deliberately lied or caused someone else to lie. The blurb is released to cause maximum buzz. Knowing McClellan’s history, my guess is that the next few paragraphs will go on to blame primarily those people who were already charged with wrong doing (Libby) and just give vague statements about how the others were guilty for having been in charge at the time, but not accusing them of any specific wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/20 "2007-11-20T22:56:26Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] My ennui has overwhelmed my outrage. [/QUOTE] Amen to that. I gave up giving a shit about GWB long ago. I’ll bet most of America has, too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236.md?page=2)