# Bush Lied, and now we have proof. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236 "2007-11-20T21:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/21 "2007-11-20T22:57:34Z")
Ok, I’m a fucking moron, for a given value of ‘fucking moron’. (angel of truth and justice? tsk tsk tsk) You did read my post? What do you think I was trying to say? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/22 "2007-11-20T23:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=ASAKMOTSD] I thought he said he was a “jelly donut”… [/QUOTE] Nope. > [@](#): > > Experts say Kennedy’s grammar was flawless when he uttered those words in German near the Berlin Wall on June 26, 1963. The phrase had been translated for him by a professional interpreter. > > It is true that the German word “Berliner” can either denote one who is a citizen of Berlin or a particular kind of jelly-filled pastry. But look at it this way: If I were to tell a group of Americans that my editor is a New Yorker, would any of them really think I’ve confused him with a certain weekly magazine of the same name? Time to put that urban legend to rest. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/23 "2007-11-20T23:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Time to put that urban legend to rest. [/QUOTE] You missed the point. People in my hometown often call me a Coloradoan. I’m not, I’m a Coloradan. Before that a Michigander. Before that a Buckeye. See? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/24 "2007-11-20T23:33:41Z")
McClellan needs to be tortured into revealing whether or not he actually _saw_ Bush’s pants on fire. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/25 "2007-11-20T23:36:47Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] McClellan needs to be tortured into revealing whether or not he actually _saw_ Bush’s pants on fire. [/QUOTE] You win this one. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/26 "2007-11-21T00:52:04Z")
How does one guy saying another guy lied constitute “proof”? Was he wearing a wire? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/27 "2007-11-21T00:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Former Bush White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan has released [excerpts from his yet to be published book](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312349,00.html) that charge President Bush with lying to the American public regarding the outing of Valerie Plame:Can we lynch him now? [/QUOTE] Firstly, unless you want to get riddled with bullets from the Secret Service I’d highly advise you not try to lynch the President of the United States. Second, while I think Bush handled the Plame affair in a very partisan manner, I really couldn’t give a shit. Do I wish we lived in a perfect world? Yup. If we lived in a perfect world the President wouldn’t behave in such a partisan manner over something like that, but we don’t live in a perfect world and he acted how I think any President would have acted in his shoes. Presidents lie, it’s part of their job. Ideally it wouldn’t be.. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/28 "2007-11-21T00:58:54Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You mean “proof” has been reduced to mean this? [/QUOTE] Guess it’ll have to do, until someone comes along with an ontological proof of Bush’s duplicity. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/29 "2007-11-21T01:01:37Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] One, technically true. Since ‘sexual relations’ have a definit legal meaning, and that meaning excluded oral sex, then it wasn’t a lie. [/quote] Actually “sexual relations” doesn’t have a definite legal meaning. While I can see where it might be defined by statute in some jurisdictions (perhaps in statutes concerning sex crimes) that would vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. _In the context of Clinton’s deposition_ it did. But when he hijacked the airwaves and made an unequivocal statement to the American people that, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman” he was not in a court of law. He wasn’t at his deposition where he made it very clear what type of sexual relations were being talked about. He was talking directly to the American people, and pretty much all Americans from California to Virginia when talking to one another would consider oral sex a form of “sexual relations.” The “I didn’t have sexual relations” comment wasn’t what he said in his deposition, it was what he said in a very-mocked television spot that he did in an attempt to hide from the fact he was having extra-martial sexual relations. > [@](#): > > Finally, an affair with an intern and committing treason, are on different levels of inappropriate behavior. Agreed, not sure what the barb about treason has to do with the price of tea in China, but this is certainly a true statement. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/30 "2007-11-21T01:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Guess it’ll have to do, until someone comes along with an ontological proof of Bush’s duplicity. [/QUOTE] John Howard said [Bush is intelligent](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1890431/posts). Lucky for him your proof threshold is subterranean. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/31 "2007-11-21T01:03:18Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] The blurb is released to cause maximum buzz. Knowing McClellan’s history, my guess is that the next few paragraphs will go on to blame primarily those people who were already charged with wrong doing (Libby) and just give vague statements about how the others were guilty for having been in charge at the time, but not accusing them of any specific wrongdoing. [/QUOTE] I’m even more convinced McClellan will not explicitly say Bush lied in this book. Here he is talking with [Larry King](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/06/lkl.01.html) just this March: > [@Mclellan](#): > > KING: Scott, were you lied to? MCCLELLAN: Well, Larry, I said what I believed to be true at the time. **It was also what the president believed to be true at the time based on assurances that we were both given.** I guess its possible that he’s changed his tune since then, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/32 "2007-11-21T01:10:11Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] John Howard said [Bush is intelligent](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1890431/posts). [/QUOTE] Well. One shouldn’t believe _everything_ one reads, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/33 "2007-11-21T01:18:44Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] No, it can’t. It is crystal clear that McClellan is charging Bush, Cheney, Card, and Libby with deliberate lies. Spinning it any other way is just fatuous obfuscation. [/QUOTE] My question is, why on earth would he do this? Has he ever shown any sign of butting heads with his bosses in the past? AFAIK, he’s always seemed to be fairly loyal, if not a believer. Why would he so suddenly turn around now, especially when half the people you mention above are still in office? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/34 "2007-11-21T01:20:08Z")
Could be a ripoff, man. Like coming-week TV previews that show the main guy [_losing all his powers_ | _joining the “other side”_ | _finally kissing the platonic-sexual-tension female lead_ | _successfully performing autofellatio_], then when you tune in, you find out it’s some two-minute throwaway dream sequence completely irrelevant to the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/35 "2007-11-21T01:24:50Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Amen to that. I gave up giving a shit about GWB long ago. I’ll bet most of America has, too. [/QUOTE] Ahh, it`s the Long Lie (related to the Big Lie), lie for long enough and people will stop caring about the truth. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/36 "2007-11-21T01:38:18Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] **Bush Lied, and now we have proof.** Former Bush White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan has released [excerpts from his yet to be published book](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312349,00.html) that charge President Bush with lying to the American public regarding the outing of Valerie Plame:Can we lynch him now? [/QUOTE] All we have “proof” of is that McClellan has made some rather vague claims. :rolleyes: How is that proof that Bush lied? :dubious: Maybe McClellan lied. Not that I have any doubt that GWB has lied to us, but still, this is hardly “proof” of anything. ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/37 "2007-11-21T01:45:55Z")
Would somebody please go blow that bastard so we can get rid of him? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/38 "2007-11-21T02:16:19Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] How does one guy saying another guy lied constitute “proof”? Was he wearing a wire? [/QUOTE] I echo this question. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/39 "2007-11-21T02:21:26Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] How does one guy saying another guy lied constitute “proof”? Was he wearing a wire? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bricker] I echo this question. [/QUOTE] Clearly, anyone ever convicted on eye witness testimony should be immediately released from prison. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236/40 "2007-11-21T02:36:02Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Firstly, unless you want to get riddled with bullets from the Secret Service I’d highly advise you not try to lynch the President of the United States. [/QUOTE] Actually, since lynching generally involves a large group of people (hence “lynch mob”), it seems to me that the risk to any one person would be fairly low. The Secret Service likely wouldn’t waste time “riddling” any individual with bullets; they’d try to take down as many people as possible before the crowd rolled over them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-lied-and-now-we-have-proof/427236.md?page=3)