# Bush: "Mission Accomplished" Anniversary is now "Loyalty Day". **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045 "2004-05-01T22:09:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/21 "2004-05-02T04:16:58Z")
**Manny** , you are accusing either me or **Finagle** of lying. Neither of us is. I plead guilty to ignorance of the prior existence of “Loyalty Day”, but that’s no lie. And Finagle’s link looks legit to me, so if your accusation was aimed at him, it’s equally baseless. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/22 "2004-05-02T06:42:22Z")
10 seconds Googling[sup]TM[/sup] got me Ronnie Reagan’s Loyalty Day Proclamation: [http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1981/41481b.htm](http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1981/41481b.htm) So, yeah, **Manny** whazza deal? ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/23 "2004-05-02T07:43:06Z")
So if this weird day was already proclaimed by prior presidents, can Bush re-proclaim it? > [@](#): > > Loyalty Day encourages citizens to demonstrate their commitment to our country by supporting our military, serving each other, and teaching our young people about our history and values. Being an American is a privilege, and our patriotism is a living faith in our country’s founding ideals and the promise of the American Dream. > > The Congress, by Public Law 85-529, as amended, has designated May 1 of each year as “Loyalty Day,” and I ask all Americans to join me in this day of celebration and in reaffirming our allegiance to our Nation. > > NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2004, as Loyalty Day. A couple of interesting phrases in the excerpt above. Like “demonstrate their commitment to our country by supporting our military” and “Being an American is a privilege”. Does anyone worry that Bush is saying, SHUT-UP about Iraq and dead soldiers or we’ll take your citizenship away (it’s a “privilege” after all) and toss your ass in GITMO? ---
**Author:** ![Canby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Canby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canby)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/24 "2004-05-02T11:51:15Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > **Manny** , you are accusing either me or **Finagle** of lying. Neither of us is. Bullshit. You are lying. You are lying to try to get a rise out of people; in this case to induce conservative persons to say something bad about the President. – It even worked with **Sam Stone**. This entire thread was a troll. And this particular troll involved you attributing to one president what is properly attributed to Congress (specifically, to Congress in 1958). There’s a citation right at the bottom of the press release, but you (correctly) figured that most people wouldn’t read that far. **December** was banned for precisely that offense – you should be too. **Finagle** , my deepest apologies for being insufficiently clear. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/25 "2004-05-02T11:55:51Z")
Oh, for the love of Mike. That above is me, of course. My post is repeated in its entirety below of the mods would care to remove the incorrectly-attributed one. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > **Manny** , you are accusing either me or **Finagle** of lying. Neither of us is. > > I plead guilty to ignorance of the prior existence of “Loyalty Day”, but that’s no lie. And Finagle’s link looks legit to me, so if your accusation was aimed at him, it’s equally baseless. Bullshit. You are lying. You are lying to try to get a rise out of people; in this case to induce conservative persons to say something bad about the President. – It even worked with **Sam Stone**. This entire thread was a troll. And this particular troll involved you attributing to one president what is properly attributed to Congress (specifically, to Congress in 1958). There’s a citation right at the bottom of the press release, but you (correctly) figured that most people wouldn’t read that far. \*\*December]/b] was banned for precisely that offense – you should be too. **Finagle** , my deepest apologies for being insufficiently clear. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/26 "2004-05-02T12:02:38Z")
**Manhattan** , why is it that you feel it’s impossible it was a mistake? If others in the thread were fooled into thinking the proclamation was recent, why couldn’t the OP have also been mistaken? You seem to be unfairly holding him to higher standard that everybody else. And I see no citation at all in the OP’s link. Please elaborate where that is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/27 "2004-05-02T12:15:45Z")
I don’t see a citation on **RTF** ’s link either. The proclamations (maybe all of them) says that "The Congress … has designated May 1 of each year as “Loyalty Day,” maybe the present-tense ‘has’ made it sound like a new thing when it’s clearly not. Anyway, I don’t think anyone’s lying here. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/28 "2004-05-02T12:57:35Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Oh, for the love of Mike. That above is me, of course. My post is repeated in its entirety below of the mods would care to remove the incorrectly-attributed one. > > Bullshit. You are lying. You are lying to try to get a rise out of people; in this case to induce conservative persons to say something bad about the President. – It even worked with **Sam Stone**. > > This entire thread was a troll. And this particular troll involved you attributing to one president what is properly attributed to Congress (specifically, to Congress in 1958). There’s a citation right at the bottom of the press release, but you (correctly) figured that most people wouldn’t read that far. > \*\*December]/b] was banned for precisely that offense – you should be too. > **Finagle** , my deepest apologies for being insufficiently clear. I have reported this post to the moderators. I will respond no further to your absurd accusations. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/29 "2004-05-02T13:34:54Z")
You do that, Rule-boy. Just make sure to remind them that this is [not the first time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=210239) that you’ve pulled something off the White House website that’s later been shown to be something that’s not new to Bush, so they can know it wasn’t an innocent mistake here. And be sure to make clear that the very text of your cite referred to Loyalty Day being an Act of Congress, not of the executive. And that the specific public law was cited, so that you could have looked it up before posting the thread. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/30 "2004-05-02T13:50:25Z")
To the posters here other than Manny: I apologize for failing to notice the reference to the Act of Congress in my post. It was an oversight on my part. Failing to completely read one’s own cite is definitely below the standards I aspire to in this forum. Whether it’s sufficient grounds for the charges Manny makes - lying, trolling, worthy of banning - I will let the mods sort out. After which they are welcome to close this thread. I’m not sure what it is that Manny makes of the linked thread, other than that he’s found an instance in which I was upset by something that other posters weren’t. > [@Arnold Winkelreid](#): > > Q: What should I do when I see a user “trolling” at the SDMB? > A: Do not publicly accuse someone of trolling at the SDMB. Use the “Report this post to a moderator” facility below the “trolling” post. Do not reply to the troll in any way in the thread, that will only encourage the troublemaker. > > Q: What if I’m not sure if the person is a troll? > A: Treat the person as a user in good standing. Respond to the post if you have something useful to add, otherwise say nothing. [Link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2670336&postcount=13) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/31 "2004-05-02T14:01:21Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I have reported this post to the moderators. I will respond no further to your absurd accusations. When you report a post to the moderators, that is **all** you should do. Do not then post in the thread about having done so, as it serves no useful purpose other than to inflame things. If there is a rule violation, the moderators will deal with it. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/32 "2004-05-02T14:01:37Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > You do that, Rule-boy. Just make sure to remind them that this is [not the first time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=210239) that you’ve pulled something off the White House website that’s later been shown to be something that’s not new to Bush, so they can know it wasn’t an innocent mistake here. In the thread you link to, he was ranting about something he thought was bad that Bush did (which I disagreed with, FWIW), and of course the Bush supporters come back with usual tiresome “Clinton did it too!” as if that makes it right. The fact that Clinton did it before was irrelevent, and clearly if a mistake was made in that thread, it wasn’t the same as the one made in this thread. Bush actually did what he ranting about there. > [@manhattan](#): > > And be sure to make clear that the very text of your cite referred to Loyalty Day being an Act of Congress, not of the executive. And that the specific public law was cited, so that you could have looked it up before posting the thread. The cite also says “I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2004, as Loyalty Day.” Seems very easy to miss the Congress part, or even think that perhaps Congress’ act was done after or as a result of Bush’s proclamation. And I’m still curious why both **John Mace** and **RTFirefly** see the same page, come to same conclusion, yet Mace is a victim, and RTF is a liar. Are you claiming RTF is smarter that Mace, and should know better? Try giving the benefit of the doubt some times, even to people who happen to have different politcs than you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/33 "2004-05-02T14:04:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I apologize for failing to notice the reference to the Act of Congress in my post. That should be "in my _link_. D’oh. :smack: But you get the idea. I blew it, I didn’t read the proclamation thoroughly enough to catch the reference to Public Law 85-529, and if I had, I wouldn’t have opened this thread. _Mea culpa._ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/34 "2004-05-02T14:06:58Z")
> [@David B](#): > > [Moderator Hat: ON] > > When you report a post to the moderators, that is **all** you should do. Do not then post in the thread about having done so, as it serves no useful purpose other than to inflame things. If there is a rule violation, the moderators will deal with it. > > * * * > > David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator > > [Moderator Hat: OFF] Noted. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/35 "2004-05-02T14:15:23Z")
Not that it’s related, **RTFirefly** , but your sig calls Paul Bremer “Jerry,” you might want to fix that. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/36 "2004-05-02T14:25:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Orwell is a tad obvious. I think it’s very Kim Jong-Il. Blah, now I have to find something disloyal to do because I’m such a contrary jerk. 😉 A vote for Kerry will express your disloyalty to GWB, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/37 "2004-05-02T14:28:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Not that it’s related, **RTFirefly** , but your sig calls Paul Bremer “Jerry,” you might want to fix that. He’s known as Jerry… > [@](#): > > Lewis Paul Bremer III, also known as Jerry Bremer, (born September 30, 1941) was named Director of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for post-war Iraq following the 2003 invasion of Iraq to replace Jay Garner on May 6, 2003. He arrived in Iraq on May 11. > **[Paul Bremer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Paul_Bremer)** > > Lewis Paul Bremer III (born September 30, 1941) is an American diplomat. He led the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) following the 2003 invasion of Iraq by the United States, from May 2003 until June 2004. > Born on September 30, 1941 in Hartford, Connecticut, Bremer was educated at New Canaan Country School, and Phillips Andover Academy. Bremer's father was president of the Christian Dior Perfumes Corporation in New York and his mother was a lecturer in art history at the University of Bri... You really should pay closer attention to the news. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/38 "2004-05-02T14:32:48Z")
:mad: **Reeder** , I read the news plenty, thank you very much. I know who Paul Bremer IS, I’ve just never heard anyone call the man Jerry before. The other line in **RTF** ’s sig refers to him as Paul, so I was innocently pointing out what I thought was a typo. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/39 "2004-05-02T14:38:27Z")
## No sweat, **RTF**. It was an easy mistake to make. I hope **manhattan** ’s behavior doesn’t make you hesitant to post. I think you should post more. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/40 "2004-05-02T14:40:38Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > ## No sweat, **RTF**. It was an easy mistake to make. I hope **manhattan** ’s behavior doesn’t make you hesitant to post. I think you should post more. Manny’s behaivor was an attempt at intimidation. Let’s not let it work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045.md?page=3)