# Bush: "Mission Accomplished" Anniversary is now "Loyalty Day". **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045 "2004-05-01T22:09:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/41 "2004-05-02T22:39:16Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > And I’m still curious why both **John Mace** and **RTFirefly** see the same page, come to same conclusion, yet Mace is a victim, and RTF is a liar. Are you claiming RTF is smarter that Mace, and should know better? It couldn’t _possibly_ be because \*\*John Mace’s[/]b political views are closer to **manhattan’s** than **RTFirefly’s** are, I’m sure… ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/42 "2004-05-02T22:49:16Z")
It’s lame enough when Average Joe Poster plays junior moderator. When someone who used to BE a moderator feels he has to play junior moderator— especially when he is wrong in his assumptions, we have reached a new level of lameness. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/43 "2004-05-02T22:57:56Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I blew it, I didn’t read the proclamation thoroughly enough to catch the reference to Public Law 85-529, and if I had, I wouldn’t have opened this thread. _Mea culpa._ OK, RT. After a talking to from someone’s who’s a better person than I am ( **Canby** ), I’m ready to acknowledge the possibility that you were in error. But in return, I want you to acknowledge that you make this error a lot, including just last week, and that there comes a point (whether or not you’ve passed it) that a reasonable person can assume that it’s not simple negligence but a carelessness that’s essentially indistinguishable from the behavior that got December banned. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/44 "2004-05-03T00:45:26Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > But in return, I want you to acknowledge that you make this error a lot, including just last week Link? Your previous linked thread was neither from last week, nor applicable to this situation. And I ask again: both John Mace and RTFirefly see the same page, come to same conclusion, yet Mace is a victim, and RTF is a liar. Are you claiming RTF is smarter that Mace, and should know better?" ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/45 "2004-05-03T01:20:59Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Link? Your previous linked thread was neither from last week, nor applicable to this situation. > > And I ask again: both John Mace and RTFirefly see the same page, come to same conclusion, yet Mace is a victim, and RTF is a liar. Are you claiming RTF is smarter that Mace, and should know better?" I believe **manhattan** is referring to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=252140). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/46 "2004-05-03T01:35:13Z")
**Revtim** , I’m thinking that the reference is to my thread a week ago about Bush’s press conferences being scripted. If having posted a few OPs that were based on a misreading of a source, and having apologized when I recognized my error, is a ban-worthy offense, then I’m guilty as charged. (Mods, any feedback?) I didn’t pay much attention to the debate over **december** ’s banning, but I seem to recall there was more to it than that. I’m sure someone with a clearer memory, or more willingness to look it all up, could fill us in on that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/47 "2004-05-03T01:47:08Z")
You think I’m going to search that **December** train wreck you need to hit that ‘The cops can’t arrest me if I’m on LSD’ thread over in GQ. Apart from the hissy fit here (though Revtim has a damn good question for you, Manhattan) and whatever the history of ‘Loyalty Day’ is (I admit to being astonished we have one)… Can we all acknowledge that it was **spectacularly** unwise politically to have this fall on the anniversary of the now-discredited ‘Mission Accomplished’ photo-op? Because that’s what I pulled out of it before this thread spun off into the twilight zone. Now let’s skip the personalities and go back to considering each other to be short-sighted idiots as per normal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/48 "2004-05-03T05:31:50Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > And I’m still curious why both **John Mace** and **RTFirefly** see the same page, come to same conclusion, yet Mace is a victim, and RTF is a liar. Are you claiming RTF is smarter that Mace, and should know better? Officer, I swear. You’ve got the wrong man! I… I… I never even posted in this thread. I’m innocent. I tell you. I’M INNOCENT!! ---
**Author:** ![Donovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@Donovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donovan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/49 "2004-05-03T07:06:59Z")
-attempting to lower the tension, I got suckered into the what the hell is bush doing mindset a few years ago - anyone notice the day and the time period it was passed (1958)? anyone wanna bet this was political grandstanding, an alternate day to that godless day of celebration for labor and communists, Mayday? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/50 "2004-05-03T08:03:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Officer, I swear. You’ve got the wrong man! I… I… I never even posted in this thread. I’m innocent. I tell you. I’M INNOCENT!! Could’ve been worse. He could have confused you with **december**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/51 "2004-05-03T12:35:21Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Officer, I swear. You’ve got the wrong man! I… I… I never even posted in this thread. I’m innocent. I tell you. I’M INNOCENT!! Oh darn it. Yeah, I meant **Sam Stone**. My apologies. I guess now **Manhattan** will accuse me of making this mistake on purpose, and call for my banning… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/52 "2004-05-03T16:02:45Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Oh darn it. Yeah, I meant **Sam Stone**. My apologies. Well, I agree with Sam about 90% of the time, so no worries on my part. I can’t speak for him, but I certainly think “Loyalty Day” is a shamelessly silly idea-- regardless of which president may be endorsing it at the time. I had seen the other threads about it in the past, so I remembered it wasn’t Bush’s idea. But if you think of what the times were like when it was first conceived, it shouldn’t be too surprising that it exists. It’s just hard for politicians to let go of crap like this. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/53 "2004-05-03T17:01:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > But if you think of what the times were like when it was first conceived, it shouldn’t be too surprising that it exists. It’s just hard for politicians to let go of crap like this. Yeah, nobody is going to come out against loyalty. And I bet even if a president decided to ignore it, and not even make a proclamation, somebody somewhere would notice and make a stink. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/54 "2004-05-03T17:17:14Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Yeah, nobody is going to come out against loyalty. And I bet even if a president decided to ignore it, and not even make a proclamation, somebody somewhere would notice and make a stink. Why DOES he hate America so much? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/55 "2004-05-03T20:08:25Z")
Loyalty Day, huh? Yeah, I’m loyal. I ate a coupla veggie dogs, dealing a blow to the US beef industry. Had some microbrew beer, sticking it to the corporate breweries. Listened to Albert Parsons (one of the Haymarket Five) give a speech. Played the “Internationale” on my fiddle and got the rest of the party to sing along, then taught 'em [“The Eight-Hour Day”](http://www.chicagohs.org/dramas/prologue/theLinesAreDrawn/theLinesAreDrawn_f.htm). If that ain’t flag-waving, God-fearing, country-loving loyalty, I don’t know what is. And I don’t, either. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/56 "2004-05-03T21:26:06Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Oh darn it. Yeah, I meant **Sam Stone**. My apologies. > > I guess now **Manhattan** will accuse me of making this mistake on purpose, and call for my banning… 😉 Well jeez, they have the posters’ names in big blue letters, right in the thread. If you said one poster’s name when you supposedly meant another’s, you _must_ have been doing it deliberately and trolling for a reaction! But if you meet my list of conditions and admit that you’re a worm worthy of being banned, I will (out of the kindness of my heart) admit that **you** have made a mistake. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/57 "2004-05-03T22:57:50Z")
Yo, those of you with serious Google-Fu: Did Dubya make a proclamation last Loyalty Day? If so, what was it? Do presidents make a proclamation every Loyalty Day, or just once a term? Quix the Lazy ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/58 "2004-05-03T23:04:44Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Yeah, nobody is going to come out against loyalty. The question is… loyalty to _what_? I feel absolutely no loyalty to the current administration. I do, however, feel a strong loyalty to our form of government - I suppose you can say, the “country.” One trumps the other rather easily. However, many other people may say that they are loyal to the “country” by expressing blind support to the current administration. This is the worst kind of treachery to me. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/59 "2004-05-03T23:11:23Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > Did Dubya make a proclamation last Loyalty Day? If so, what was it? A quick serch of [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) for loyalty day turns up: [2003](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/20030430-26.html) [2002](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020502-20.html) [2001](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/04/20010426-4.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045/60 "2004-05-04T00:43:40Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Loyalty Day, huh? Yeah, I’m loyal. > > I ate a coupla veggie dogs, dealing a blow to the US beef industry. Had some microbrew beer, sticking it to the corporate breweries. Listened to Albert Parsons (one of the Haymarket Five) give a speech. Played the “Internationale” on my fiddle and got the rest of the party to sing along, then taught 'em [“The Eight-Hour Day”](http://www.chicagohs.org/dramas/prologue/theLinesAreDrawn/theLinesAreDrawn_f.htm). > > If that ain’t flag-waving, God-fearing, country-loving loyalty, I don’t know what is. And I don’t, either. 😃 Damn, O. I want your life. I spent ‘Loyalty Day’ working, without pay, at a trade festival running the retail sales booth in bumfuck West Virginia. And I want to learn to play fiddle, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-mission-accomplished-anniversary-is-now-loyalty-day/243045.md?page=4)