# Bush on evolution: "the verdict is still out" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111 "2000-10-31T18:15:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/1 "2000-10-31T18:15:23Z")
You have GOT to be kidding me! Here is what he said: “I think that, for example, on the issue of evolution, the verdict is still out on how God created the earth,” How could anyone other than the religious right vote for this guy if he doesn’t seem to believe in evolution? More proof that this guy is an idiot (as if his belief that there is no such thing as global warming wasn’t enough). Oh and this was from the New York Times, so I think that it’s a pretty reliable source. Here is the story (you need to register for free to get it). [http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/22/politics/22PRAY.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/22/politics/22PRAY.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/2 "2000-10-31T18:21:29Z")
Surprisingly enough, my opinion of George W. Bush just went down, something I heretofore thought impossible. I already thought he was an idiot, but I didn’t know it was _this_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/3 "2000-10-31T18:22:26Z")
Yes, clearly we should all base our votes on sound bites and personal religious beleifs. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/4 "2000-10-31T18:23:23Z")
So does this change anyone’s vote? I mean what is next? Will he stop chemotherapy treatments in favor of bleeding the patients? ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/5 "2000-10-31T18:25:21Z")
I forgot to put “cancer” before “patients” ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/6 "2000-10-31T18:26:08Z")
Scylla, don’t you think that perhaps a major party candidate running for President of the United States, with a major campaign plank regarding education, should maybe not confuse the origin of the planet with the development of life thereon, and know something about the scientific status of evolutionary theory? ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/7 "2000-10-31T18:30:44Z")
Scylla, haven’t you perhaps heard the word “education” bandied about recently? Now if Bush is just trying to stay on the fence so as to keep votes on both sides of the CvE debate, then I can understand it, though not necessarily approve. On the other hand, if he really thinks that evolution is doubtful, then he is IMO an even bigger idiot than I previously thought him. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/8 "2000-10-31T18:41:21Z")
Pldennison: from the aricle: > [@](#): > > Asked whether he regards the Bible as the literal and inerrant word of God, Mr. Bush said in the earlier interview: "From Scripture you can gain a lot of strength and solace and learn life’s lessons. That’s what I believe, and I don’t necessarily believe every single word is literally true. > > “I think that, for example, on the issue of evolution, the verdict is still out on how God created the earth,” he said, a position that separates him from the fundamentalists. “I don’t use the Bible as necessarily a way to predict the findings of science.” I don’t think it’s possible to read into that what you and Ptahlis imply. The article states several times that Bush is moderate in his beliefs, and that last quote seems to pretty clearly indicate that Bush knows the difference between religious belief and science. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/9 "2000-10-31T18:43:51Z")
It’s not like politicians today actually believe in the separation of church of state (and Gore/Leiberman seems to be no better about that than Bush). Until church and state is _really_ seperate, then I would say personal religious beliefs do have bearing. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/10 "2000-10-31T18:48:08Z")
Scylla this is also from the article: > [@](#): > > Mr. Bush learned a lesson from his first campaign for governor, when he created a controversy by telling an Austin reporter that only those who have accepted Christ as their savior can enter the kingdom of heaven. Not very moderate there. So maybe it’s not so much that his opinions/views have changed, but that he knows he can’t be as straight forward about what he thinks. That’s what he does in the first quote I posted. In a roundabout way he is saying that “there is no proof of evolution.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/11 "2000-10-31T18:51:51Z")
Dignan: How is that any different from saying only members of the Elk Lodge can be members of the Elk Lodge? Wh is that a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/12 "2000-10-31T18:52:24Z")
Guys, you’re really reaching for straws now. Every Presidential candidate panders to the religious vote. Gore does, Bush does, Clinton did, Reagan did… I just saw Clinton addressing the congregation in a black church. When asked about their person religious beliefs, not a single candidate that I can recall has ever claimed to be agnostic or athiest, or even disinterested. They all claim to be good, god-fearin’, church-goin’ faithful. Other than for political purposes, would anyone like to hazard a guess as to when the last time Clinton stepped foot in a church for the purpose of worshipping God (as opposed to a wedding or a funeral)? My guess is never. Yet he claims to be ‘deeply religious’. Bush is just doing what every candidate does. BTW, what do you suppose Joe Lieberman thinks about evolution? ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/13 "2000-10-31T19:01:22Z")
Really Scylla? You don’t think it would be valid to take that quote to mean: “While I know God created the universe, I just ain’t too sure about all that evolution stuff.” ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/278dde/32.png) [@JustAnotherGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/14 "2000-10-31T19:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dignan \* > \*\*You have GOT to be kidding me! Here is what he said: > > “I think that, for example, on the issue of evolution, the verdict is still out on how God created the earth,” > > How could anyone other than the religious right vote for this guy if he doesn’t seem to believe in evolution? \*\* I don’t believe he meant that the evolutionists haven’t made their case, but opened the door to combine the two as some creation/evolutionists have offered as a compromise between “Truth” and “Faith”. Do you really think that everyone in this country/world accepts the _theory_ of evolution? I could, with sufficient government funding and “scientists” and archealogical studies provide irrevocable evidence that we all flew here from an alien nation. I can, by compiling hundreds of papers by “scientists” disprove the _theory_ of evolution. But, I don’t have government funding or “scientists” on my payroll, so please accept that there are ALOT of people who do not believe in the _theory_ of evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/15 "2000-10-31T19:18:23Z")
Yeah, well it’s a pretty damn _good_ theory. There have been skeletons of cromagnon man found. We are no longer like that, so we have evolved from them. That would qualify as evolution. Is there any proof that cromagnon man or neanderthals didn’t exist? If there is then how do they explain the skeletons. The thing with Lieberman is that he hasn’t said anything. The stupid thing about Bush is that he would actually say it. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/16 "2000-10-31T19:18:31Z")
**Al Gore** on the [same subject](http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/22/politics/22FAIT.html) > [@](#): > > Asked if he believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible, Mr. Gore paused, took a moment and then said, "Well, I don’t believe in the literal interpretation of the word `literally.’ " > > Was he hedging? Joking about hedging, à la “that depends on what the meaning of `is’ is?” Or making the point that even many theological conservatives understand the Bible metaphorically? That’s open to interpretation, of course, like so much about the vice president. > > “Everything in the Bible makes sense to me,” Mr. Gore went on. “I interpret it my own way, and that’s what my tradition teaches me to do. There are poetic passages that speak eloquently to me with meanings that transcend the literal words. In Genesis, for example, God creates this, that and the other in one day, two days, and that represents an order in creation that’s perfectly evident to my heart.” > > But are those passages symbolic stories, or based on historical events? He sighed. “They are lessons about passages in the human story that actually took place, and they’re redolent with layers and layers of meaning because they represent not only the events nominally described.” So Bush is an idiot and Gore is physiologically incapable of giving a straigh answer to a question. I can’t say that I’ve learned anything new today. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/17 "2000-10-31T19:25:28Z")
Where did it go??? We’ve got a verdict AWOL!!! Or maybe he meant the _ **jury** _? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/278dde/32.png) [@JustAnotherGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/18 "2000-10-31T19:32:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dignan \* > \*\*Yeah, well it’s a pretty damn _good_ theory. There have been skeletons of cromagnon man found. We are no longer like that, so we have evolved from them. That would qualify as evolution. Is there any proof that cromagnon man or neanderthals didn’t exist? If there is then how do they explain the skeletons. > > The thing with Lieberman is that he hasn’t said anything. The stupid thing about Bush is that he would actually say it. \*\* I don’t think you get it… Bush claims himself to be the great compromiser so he is offering a compromise to both sides of the argument. And not to turn this into a creation v. evolution debate because I don’t believe that was your initial intent, I could just as easily cite 100s of extinct species, whose skeletal remains can be found and they lend no evidence whatsoever to evolution. Perhaps the cromagnon man was simply another version of ape that went extinct during the ice age…errr flood. I could also argue that the “scientists” in an effort to prove their _theory_ made a paper mache (sp) skeleton and put it behind a glass in the Smithsonian and told you how old it was based upon methods that they made up to age things. (I went there didn’t I?) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/19 "2000-10-31T19:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ptahlis \* > \*\*Really Scylla? You don’t think it would be valid to take that quote to mean: “While I know God created the universe, I just ain’t too sure about all that evolution stuff.” \*\* No I don’t think you can interpret it that way, fairly. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111/20 "2000-10-31T20:30:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*So Bush is an idiot and Gore is physiologically incapable of giving a straigh answer to a question. > > I can’t say that I’ve learned anything new today. \*\* LOL! Yeah, but what part of “I don’t use the Bible as necessarily a way to predict the findings of science” didn’t y’all get? That is a fairly bold stand for a born again person. Isn’t or Orthodox Jewish friend, Lieberman, an unbeliever of evolution? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-evolution-the-verdict-is-still-out/39111.md?page=2)