Bush on Meet the Press, I give him B-

Those are a heck of a lot of people.

Remember what Bill Murray’s character said to the Mayor in Ghostbusters that finally swayed him? “If I’m right, then you, Mike, will have saved the lives of millions… of registered voters.”

Do not simply snicker at the “fucking idiots.” Electorally speaking, the man that wins is the man that connects with the most voters. It would be ideal if that man were the one with the plain, simple, provable facts. But that doesn’t seem to be how elections are won.

Dukakis got crucified by the Willie Horton ads. Never mind the facts. Carter was slammed by Reagan’s chuckle of “There you go again.” Clinton said, “I feel your pain,” and people believed him. These were not appeals to logic and sweet reason.

Don’t you find that scary? Do you think a man who would take advantage of such ignorance is someone we should have in office? Apparently you do.

So tens of millions of idiots connect with an idiot, this is my point.

I love the ho-hum attitude here. Does this not piss you off to your very core?

BTW, you never answered my question where the belief of a link comes from.

Or the implied question of why he’s so proud to support an administration that lies so blatantly to get the support of the “fucking idiots”. Those with the gifts of reason and persuasion have the obligation to use them constructively.

Still waiting for an answer. I’m sure it will take you some time to concoct a dozy.

[QUOTE=World Eater]
Not attacking you county, just what Bush said.
I understand, I know I am not being attacked, but, I don’t know, I feel so “used”…

:smiley:

[sub]Must pad post[/sub]

Find me a credible candidate UNwilling to take advantage of such tactics, and you might just sway my vote. However, apart from local and possibly state-level elections, I’m afraid you won’t. All candidiates pander to that low mark.

It used to… when I was sixteen.

Now I understand that this is the way it is. An election cannot be won by the man who focuses on rational attempts to explain his position, because the majority of the electorate is impatient with what they don’t understand. I saw this when Carter ran against Ford in 1976 - Carter ran ads portraying himself as a hard-working peanut farmer, a man in touch with the people, as opposed to Ford’ Washington insider. What possible relevance was peanut farming skill? None. He just wanted to distinguuish himself from Ford and the scandal-plagued Nixon White House. Why didn’t he spend time talking about how he would address inflation instead of offering interviews with his brother and mother?

He won. But that folksy touch turned against him in the 1980 debates. Carter had good, solid answers to problems with the economy and the disastrous turns in foreign policy - the hostages in Iran, the support for the Shah. But all Reagan had to do was chuckle and say, “There you go again.” There he goes again what?!? Answering a legitimately complicated question with a legitimately complicated answer? Well, the people didn’t like that. That Reagan sure put smart-ass Carter in his place.

Reagan’s victory against Mondale was cut from the same cloth. Mondale’s ads tried to point out that there was a potential dark side to the Reagan “morning in America” prosperity - that deficit spending without a clear and compellig reason would have an unacceptable price. Reagan’s ads dismissed that as nonsense. It wasn’t nonsense – it was a legitimate policy point that needed to be aired. But jobs were plentiful and Reagan was friendly and trustworthy. That’s all it took.

In 1988, Bush slaughtered Dukakis with the “revolving door” furlough ads, a characterization of Dukakis’ policy so simplistic it bordered on outright dishonesty. Willie Horton was coming to your house to rape your daughters, the ads seemed to suggest, if Dukakis got in. This is not to say that Dukakis had a well-organizaed message to disrupt – admittedly, he did not – but that’s not what slayed him. He was killed because the Bush campaign found a simple theme and played it to the country, and they bought it… never mind that the truth was more complex. Complicated is bad.

In 1992, Clinton used talk shows, cable TV, his formidable ability playing the sax, and a genuuine ability to connect with people to his advantage. He accused Bush of breaking his no-new-tax pledge, while not admitting that he, too, planned to raise marginal income taxes. This was dishonesty by ommission, if nothing else, and while it’s true that Bush’s campaign was primarily defensive in tone and relied on attacks on Clinton rather than substance, Clinton’s ads relied on oversimplified claims of the budget and tax process that bordered on dissembling. Bush always trailed in the polls, it’s true, but Clinton hardly approached the process with a commitment to fully air complex issues.

In 1996, Clinton’s ads attacked Newt Gingrich more than they did Bole Dole, and left the listener to conclude that Dole was evil by association. A picture of Dole standing next to Gingrich was combined with commentary on the Gingrich-led federal government shutdown. This was a dishonest and short-sighted comment as well, never mentioning the reasons for the shutdown had as much to do with the White House as with the GOP. For Dole’s part, he tried raise the spectre of drugs as a huge national problem and imply that Clinton was to blame, without citing any evidence to back the claims up. He blatered on about his proposed 15% tax cut without ever explaining how he would fund it.

In 2000… well, I know you remember 2000.

The point is simply this: appeal to simplistic positionsm, regardless of their actual truth, is a sine qua non for any candidate. Don’t complain that one guy is doing it. They are ALL doing it. That weight appears on both sides of the balance scales. It cancels out.

  • Rick

Damn. That’s pretty good, Bricker. I’m not sure the tank ride helped Dukakis either. I laugh to this day.

Great post Rick, I agree with everything 100%. I too am extremely cynical, and find 99.9% of politicians to be self-serving scumbags. In any group however, there will be variation, and with politicians or anyone else, some scumbags are worse then others. Now to be honest I don’t view Bush as some evil scumbag, to be truthful, I see him in some sort of bumbling view. He seems to really believe in what he’s doing, and that he is right, and we are wrong. There seems to be some innocence in him, but this makes him no less dangerous.

Let me take a step back before I get started here.

I’ve had some beefs with pretty much every president since I started caring about this stuff. You can pull up, (and you have) slimeball after slimeball, but to me they are irrelevant. We should be about the here and now, not about past presidents. Who gives a shit about Clinton, he’s yesterday’s news. I was happy when Bush finally won, because I viewed him as the lesser of two evils, and he actually seemed like a no bullshit straight shooter. (Not that much of a no bullshit straight shooter mind you, just a smudge more then some other guys). The point is, Bush started with a clean slate, at least with me. He had me all the way up to the Iraq debacle, and even then, he even had me at the beginning of that. During that period though, it just seemed to start spiraling out of control. The bullying of the UN, the whole France and Germany thing, and those goddamn freedom fries. Now sure, Bush wasn’t responsible for things like the fries, but the atmosphere in which they were created was his doing. An atmosphere of division, of us against them, and an unwavering stance that we were right, and the world was wrong. During the buildup to the war, the desperation to attack Iraq was so obvious I could taste it. For awhile I assumed they had some intel that they couldn’t disclose, and in that time, that scenario stuck me as totally plausible. After some time though, I realized that they didn’t have squat. Powell’s speech to the UN was what clinched it for me. It was really pathetic, and even Ray Charles could see that they were grasping at the most tenuous of straws. This is where I actually began to become ashamed for our country. Of course the rest is history now, and it’s painfully obvious that no WMD exist. I wish I could say it’s amusing to watch them twist in the wind, but I’m so amazed that they still believe that WMD will be found, I’m starting to literally question if they are fit for office.

We’ll always have presidents that bullshit us and lie, or fling mud, but you must realize that Bush has done something that isn’t even in the same ballpark.

Magnificent post Bricker. A wonderful compendium of the past 30 years.

Being an Australian myself, I’m forced to ponder if similar trends exist down here as well, and yes - indeed they do.

Ultimately, regarding this “dumb it down” syndrome, I put more than a little bit of it down to the medium of television. It’s a bizarre thing, but a telegenic, aesthetic candidate can say something totally lacking in substance on a TV debate and almost always get away with it.

Certainly, radio and broadsheet newspapers seem to engender a somewhat more circumspect form of commentary and behaviour.

I always like to chew news events over for a few days before forming an opinion.

Demonstrably, Bush gave one of his best performances:

First Example

How did that lie pan out? Quite well, actually. The next day Scott McClellan, the White Houses press secretary, dribbles out a few more inconclusive documents.

The New York Times article is deferential: it does not mention that Bush could easily fulfill his promise by simply waiving his rights under the privacy act. (Memo to the White House: here’s a sample form). It shouldn’t be too difficult to fill out.

But that’s old history. Bush’s best whoppers always involve policy.

Second Example
Factcheck.org notes that Bush erred when he stated that Clinton’s discretionary spending was up 15% in his last year: actually it was up only 5.6%. Details, details. Timothy Noah notes that Bush’s lies about his spending policy are a little different than usual, since he is lying to his constituency, who don’t care too much about deficits, but care a lot about big guvment.

Nonetheless, as of yesterday, the WSJ, Weekly Standard or National Review Online had not taken the President to task for his duplicity.

So the President fooled the New York Times and the Conservative Media. Two for two. He didn’t fool the bloggers, but nobody reads them anyway.

For a man who is portrayed as a dimwit, I think Bush does quite well for himself.

Well, personally, my favorite was when asked about the investigating committee, and would he testify, he allowed as how he would “visit”. How charmingly coy!

What, he’s gonna take a couple a six packs and some dip, put his feet up and shoot the shit about Nascar?

I have to qualify Bricker’s remarks.

Part of Clinton’s genius was that he could speak on two levels, sometimes even within the same sentence.

During the 1992 Presidential primaries, I remember him discussing how we needed to increase the short term deficit to combat the recession while cutting the long-term deficit to keep the bond market happy. This was during a round-table debate.

Also, it was pretty clear to this observer that Clinton would deliver a middle class tax cut, but would increase taxes on higher incomes. Which is what he did, although the expanded earned income tax credit, increased child tax credit and Lifetime Earnings credit were divided between the 1993 and 1997 tax years.

Still, Bricker’s big point that simplistic wins over wonkishness seems indisputable.

Let me express my deep sadness over the sentiments expressed by Bricker and surprisingly ratified by, well, a few others here. It isn’t only that appealing to ignorance works that is the trouble here. That much is true, but you’re not going far enough. Simplicity and an appearance of intellectual honesty work, and can be made to work for the forces of community as well as selfishness, and many leaders have operated successfully and are remembered kindly for their ability to do that. What is emmphattically not true is that we should simply quit - and, for some, like Bricker, even go over enthusiastically to the other side. It’s sad enough to give up any thought of making the world better - if we all thought that, it would happen that way, and there are simply too many counterexamples of how the world has changed to make any statement that it can’t happen tenable. That attitude is worse than fatuous, it is gratuitously insulting.

No, what’s worse is to actively fight those who do want to make the world better, which necessarily includes fighting ignorance. But Bricker is doing exactly that by his enthusiastic, gloating support of the insupportable. It says a lot for that “position” that, whenever asked about specifics, he concedes that the guy he’s supporting is wrong - or at least retreats into claims that he himself is better off and the rest of the world just doesn’t matter.

Friends, perhaps you’ve been misreading this site’s masthead all along. “Fighting Ignorance” means fighting *against * it, not for it. You don’t have to be part of the solution if you don’t want to, but for God’s sake please stop being part of the problem.

Bricker makes some pretty good points but, again, they need to be qualified.

Of course all politicians make emotional appeals. It’s part of the poetry of campaigning (as opposed to the prose of governing). Ergo, emotional appeals will precede any election victory.

But that’s not to say that one necessarily causes the other. Indeed it is far from clear whether the elections of 1980, 1988, and 1992 were decided by the referenced sound bites.

For example, I don’t think anybody was swayed by, “I feel your pain”. Heck, that line was made into a wisecrack almost immediately. Indeed, IMHO, the elections of 1980 and 1992 (and probably 1988) turned on the state of the economy during those particular election years.

To put it bluntly, if Carter had not fought inflation by appointing Paul Volker, he would have won a second term. (Admittedly, the Iranian hostage crisis also hurt.) Also, if Bush Sr. had pushed conventional Keynesian policies (as Nixon would have done), victory would have been his in 1992.

IMHO. Those wishing substantiation of the preceding however can look to the work of Ray Fair.

If the Axiom of Induction is believable, then what Bricker has said is believable. It’s been 228 years. It’s reasonable to suspect that there will be 229.

For a superb examination of your point, you should read Neil Postman’s 1985 book, Amusing Ourselves To Death. Despite its age, it’s still a dead-on analysis.

Um, no. I have not seen it demonstrated that the more simplistic candidate wins every election. Heck, if you could demonstrate that the more simplistic candidate wins even most elections, then that would be evidence.

I fear that I have just distorted Bricker’s position. As I said earlier, I only wanted to offer qualification.

All politicians pander and all will engage in simplicities.

But some are only capable of engaging the public (and their advisors for that matter) on a simplistic level, while others are also able to discuss policy in a thoughtful way, given the right context.