# Bush on UK protests **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213 "2003-11-14T08:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/101 "2003-11-19T12:15:01Z")
The point, **owl** , is surely that no matter which of these issues one has gone to protest about, _George is the man in the position to do something about it_, and so it is entirely legitimate for the crowd to comprise a disparate hotch potch of political views. The Countryside Alliance was no less contradictory, agreed? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/102 "2003-11-19T12:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > **Whatever one’s position on any of these issues, it is instantly apparent that there is no coherence here.** The common thread is _very_ obvious. It’s the “fuck you” attitude the U.S. displays. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/103 "2003-11-19T12:17:57Z")
(At the moment, under this completely fucked-up administration) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/104 "2003-11-19T12:21:07Z")
> [@](#): > > **owlstretchingtime** : There is no organisation or _focus_ in this - which is why it isn’t in any way credible. Well, goody. At least GWB can’t just toss this off as another “focus group” then. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/105 "2003-11-19T12:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* > \*\*The point, **owl** , is surely that no matter which of these issues one has gone to protest about, _George is the man in the position to do something about it_, and so it is entirely legitimate for the crowd to comprise a disparate hotch potch of political views. The Countryside Alliance was no less contradictory, agreed? \*\* The Countryside Alliance was a bit of a hodge-podge, but was a tighter focussed hodge-podge than this gang of mommets. It’s weakness was indeed the blurring of the issues, and it suffered accordingly. Also - where were the two-bob mob when the likes of Ceacescu; Mugabe; Hirohito and Moi were here? Nowhere to be seen, that’s where. They have the intellectual rigour (and personal hygiene) of Harry Enfield’s teenager - “that is so unfair! I hate you”. and like him they will grow out of it. And at that point maybe the grown-ups will start listening to them. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/106 "2003-11-19T12:48:09Z")
> [@](#): > > The Countryside Alliance was a bit of a hodge-podge, but was a tighter focussed hodge-podge than this gang of mommets. Well, now we quibble over minutiae and measures of “focus”. > [@](#): > > Also - where were the two-bob mob when the likes of Ceacescu; Mugabe; Hirohito and Moi were here? Nowhere to be seen, that’s where. I take it you are organising an “_Invade_ Zimbabwe/Burma/North Korea/_etc._” then? _Tu Quoque_ing gets a little tiresome after a while. > [@](#): > > They have the intellectual rigour (and personal hygiene) of Harry Enfield’s teenager And I hereby characterise the CA as a bunch of inbred tweedy freeloaders with one-eyed barbour-jacketed babies, just for balance. Perhaps you might be interested in my [open letter](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224109). ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/107 "2003-11-19T12:57:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > In the light of **Aro’s** post I should clarify: there have been separate marches about many of the issues. The main march is about the Iraq war. That’s my understanding as well. Do they not understand there is and was no ‘war’. There is currently an “occupation”, perhaps they can get a ‘job lot’ price on all that unsold ‘Stop the war’ merchandise. Or perhaps they just want to go back in time . . . I’d like to sympathise but they do make it rather hard. Anyway, on the general point, let me be an intentionally provocative fucker (including a response to **Elvis** here): Is this really about Iraq or not ? And if it really is about Iraq _what exactly about Iraq_ ? Do these protesters know more than me, because I certainly don’t know what the Iraqi majority would like right now (meaning the (non Sunni) Shia’s). Or are they clueless and actually hijacking other peoples’ misery and despair for their own single issues. Can someone actually tell me the majority of the Iraqi people want the ‘coalition’ gone _right now_ and for them to be left to face the consequences of a near lawless society ? Or maybe the march is about another aspect of this so-called ‘war’? Help me please ? Indeed, would someone care to explain how assuming an agenda on behalf of others (Iraqi’s) is (morally) legitimate when you don’t know what those others actually want. And because you don’t it means you can march instead for a Free Fucking Tibet ? Are you not using the Iraqi people for you own ends just as much as Bush ? ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/108 "2003-11-19T13:03:04Z")
Not wishing to quibble, but… The CA were not all there for one purpose - eg fox-hunting ; the CAP; ramblers etc. THis was it’s weakness. However there was at least a semblence of a big-tent. With this rabble there is too divergent a set of causes, of varying degrees of credibilty, meaning it is very easy to discredit. All the media need to do is ask a few different people what they are against - get a bunch of completely dfifferent, and contradictory, responses and leave it at that. And I would be right behind attacking Zimbabwe and North Korea (and a few others too). Unfortunately I don’t have first strike capability. In any case - demonstrations don’t work. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/109 "2003-11-19T13:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*That’s my understanding as well. Do they not understand there is and was no ‘war’. Now you’re seriously worrying me. At the moment, 53 of your countrymen in uniform have lost their lives in this “non-war”. > [@](#): > > Anyway, on the general point, let me be an intentionally provocative fucker And I have a feeling you’re going to do a good job of it, too > [@](#): > > Is this really about Iraq or not ? And if it really is about Iraq _what exactly about Iraq_ ? Depends on what you mean by “it”, and which of these bootless-and-unhorsed you ask. Each has their own thoughts and motivations, don’t they? > [@](#): > > Can someone actually tell me the majority of the Iraqi people want the ‘coalition’ gone _right now_ and for them to be left to face the consequences of a near lawless society ? Can you say anyone has demanded that “_right now_”? > [@](#): > > Indeed, would someone care to explain how assuming an agenda on behalf of others (Iraqi’s) is (morally) legitimate when you don’t know what those others actually want. And because you don’t it means you can march instead for a Free Fucking Tibet ? > > Are you not using the Iraqi people for you own ends just as much as Bush ? To the extent that Bush has responsibility for a free Tibet and one disagrees with those policies, one has a right to protest them. If there are a lot of other people alongside you protesting different things, that’s their lookout. But it’s tacky and counterproductive nevertheless. Now, friend, are _you_ telling us that a large percentage of the crowds you’ve seen are protesting Tibet policy rather than the continuing lies of the Iraq war? That doesn’t jibe with the coverage we’ve seen elsewhere; do you know better? No, now that your post is over, it looks like you haven’t even addressed anything I’ve said to you previously at all. But we may have different cultural norms for communication. Was that “provocative” by British standards, or just being an “intentional fucker”? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/110 "2003-11-19T13:43:06Z")
It was borrowed from [Derek and Clive](http://www.phespirit.info/derekandclive/live_02.htm), who, on reflection, you probably know, so it’ll be a cultural thing. More later ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/111 "2003-11-19T13:47:12Z")
“ . . . who you probably \*\*don’t \*\* know . . . “ ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/112 "2003-11-19T13:49:04Z")
I just want to remind **L\_C** that there were indeed Free Tibet demonstrations when Jiang Zhemin visited London. They weren’t as vehement or as large - but then again the UK wasn’t involved in the occupation of Tibet - but they were quashed worryingly effectively by the Met. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/113 "2003-11-19T13:51:37Z")
It’s a metaphor: Try whales if it’s easier. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/114 "2003-11-19T14:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*It’s a metaphor: Try whales if it’s easier. \*\* Ah, those Meibion Glyndwr fuckers you mean… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/115 "2003-11-19T14:32:18Z")
Free Wales! That is, give Giggs and Earnshaw space to run at the Russian defence while Pembridge and Speed hold midfield. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/116 "2003-11-19T16:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*It was borrowed from [Derek and Clive](http://www.phespirit.info/derekandclive/live_02.htm), who, on reflection, you probably know, so it’ll be a cultural thing. More later \*\* Tomorrow is the ideal time to lace up one’s cunt-kicking boots… ---
**Author:** ![MrBerious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MrBerious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrBerious)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/117 "2003-11-19T16:29:39Z")
Notice how the hyped for days protests have all but fallen off the news agenda? According to the BBC website ([http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3283657.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3283657.stm)), a mere 600 usual suspects turned up to bleat about Bush/USA/capitalism/McDonalds. Red faces all 'round I suspect as the media darlings are reduced to reporting some non-story of a reporter who infiltrated Buckingham Palace and even (horror of horrors) GW’s speech! ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/118 "2003-11-19T17:01:20Z")
I did notice, behind Christiane Amanpour, that the protestors were mixed with lookyloos and tourists and they didn’t even fill the path in front of Buck House. But to be fair, maybe it was the middle of the work day, the police were restricting the numbers, or a gazillion people had just finished parading by. Besides, the big shebang is tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/119 "2003-11-19T17:25:24Z")
Sorry, to double-post, but I just have to share this page. It’s a bunch of BBC reporters [live from London and Glasgow](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3279581.stm), covering what’s actually happening on the ground. The protestors are indeed not very many but things seem to be picking up now as people get off work and wander by. And this entry, from 5:02 pm, is just priceless: > [@](#): > > One man has just been arrested outside Buckingham Palace after it appeared as if he stole a policeman’s hat. > > The incident started when the protester ran from one side of the crowd to the other waving a policeman’s hat in the air. > > A number of police officers rugby tackled the man - prompting howls of protest from the other demonstrators. > > After a noisy 5 minute stand-off, police officers led the man away with no further incident. The main casualty appears to be the Queen’s flower beds which have now been thoroughly trampled. Sooo cute. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213/120 "2003-11-19T18:00:29Z")
Wasn’t Thursday supposed to be the “big protest day”? Perhaps there will be more of a story tomorrow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-on-uk-protests/213213.md?page=7)