# Bush opens Lincoln Bedroom to Big Donors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507 "2004-03-10T16:41:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/1 "2004-03-10T16:41:25Z")
[But it was _baaaaad_ when Clinton did it.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=5&u=/ap/20040310/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_sleepovers) > [@](#): > > Bush and first lady Laura Bush have invited at least 270 people to stay at the White House and at least the same number to overnight at the Camp David retreat since moving to Washington in January 2001, according to lists the White House provided The Associated Press. > Some guests spent a night in the Lincoln Bedroom, historic quarters that gained new fame in the Clinton administration amid allegations that Democrats rewarded major donors like Hollywood heavyweights Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand with accommodations there. > That scandal and Bush’s criticism of it is one of the reasons the White House identifies guests. In a debate with Vice President Al Gore in October 2000, Bush said: “I believe they’ve moved that sign, `The buck stops here,' from the Oval Office desk to `The buck stops here’ on the Lincoln Bedroom. And that’s not good for the country.” > [@](#): > > Brad Freeman, a venture capitalist who is leading Bush’s California fund-raising effort, has raised at least $200,000 for his re-election campaign and is also a major Republican Party fund-raiser. Freeman stayed at the White House. > > \_Roland Betts, who raised at least $100,000 for Bush in 2000, was a Bush fraternity brother at Yale and a Texas Rangers partner. Betts stayed at the White House and Camp David. > > \_William DeWitt, a Bush partner in the oil business and Texas Rangers who has raised at least $200,000 for Bush’s re-election effort, stayed at the White House. > > \_James Francis, who headed the Bush campaign’s 2000 team of $100,000-and-up volunteer fund-raisers and was a Bush appointee in Texas when Bush was governor. Francis was a White House guest. > > \_Joseph O’Neill, an oilman and childhood friend who introduced Bush to Laura Bush and raised at least $100,000 for each of Bush’s presidential campaigns, stayed at the White House. > > \_Colorado Gov. Bill Owens and New York Gov. George Pataki, who each raised at least $200,000 for Bush’s re-election campaign, were White House guests. > > \_James Langdon, who raised at least $100,000 for Bush, is a Washington attorney specializing in international oil and gas transactions. Langdon, whose clients include the Russian oil company Lukoil, is a member of Bush’s foreign intelligence advisory board and served on Bush’s 2000 presidential transition team on energy policy. Add this to [the ever-growing list of Bush flip-flops](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/7/213753/1954). ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/2 "2004-03-10T16:54:59Z")
What are you, a terrorist loving commie? When Dems do something, it is big government doing something bad and must be questioned. When GOP does the same thing it is in the interest of national security and your patriotism is suspect if you question it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/3 "2004-03-10T17:47:08Z")
_Oh mommy, I ain’t no commie…_ – Brewer and Shipley I tripped across a great acronym this morning at one blog: IOKIYAR. It’s OK If You’re A Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/4 "2004-03-10T18:02:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [But it was _baaaaad_ when Clinton did it.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=5&u=/ap/20040310/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_sleepovers) > > Add this to [the ever-growing list of Bush flip-flops](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/7/213753/1954). You know, I dislike Bush as much as the next guy, and I’ll be doing my part to show him the door in '04, but this list doesn’t seem all that damning. I’m looking over the bullets and it seems the relationship between some of these individuals and the Bush family are personal, not political. Frat brother? Guy who introduced him to his wife? These are people who have known them since before they ever wielded any power or influence. The White House is the residence of the President and his family. I see it as completely legitimate to invite personal friends over. I also don’t care that his friends from way back helped him out in his campaign. If I ever decided to run for president some of my best friends from way back would undoubtedly help out in any way they could and I’d hate to think that would disqualify me from inviting my best friends over to my residence during my tenure in office. At least three names on this list would qualify as personal, not political, friends. People who aren’t affiliated with the Bush family in any way other than political ties could be suspect, but a campaign manager from the past could qualify as a family friend as well. I’d be more suspicious of people with ongoing relationships with the Bush family which were almost completely political, like Freeman or Langdon. That doesn’t speak to hypocrisy of course. He may be a huge hypocrite if he was criticising the Clintons for having personal guests. He is almost certainly a hypocrite if he was berating them for having guests with little more than political ties to the family in residence. And these relationships should be scrutinized, especially in the case of purely political connections, for evidence of improper conduct. But on balance I think the first family should be allowed lattitude to have personal guests over to the White House fairly freely. It isn’t like they can travel to their friends to have an evening together. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/5 "2004-03-10T18:15:39Z")
Bush always struck me as a man who was partial to delicous, meaty, Greek snack foods…the question is does he prefer lamb to chicken? Does he have extra chilli sauce? These are the great questions of our time and I think we would all like closure on this. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/6 "2004-03-10T18:25:24Z")
“Close personal friends”? Some of them perhaps, although I would classify a number of them as business associates (who may or may not also be friends). I feel reasonable confident that the governors of Colorado and New York are not close personal firends, or if they are, are of very recent vintage. I see no claim of friendship for venture capitalist and Republican fundraiser Brad Freeman. “Before he wielded power and influence”? When was that exactly? Bush fils has been able to wield power and influence most or all of his life. Much of that was borrowed power, borrowed from his father and grandfather (and their money) but it was available to him nonetheless. Regardless, it gets right back to that personal favorite of mine, the appearance of impropriety. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/7 "2004-03-10T18:31:23Z")
C’mon, there’s no hypocrisy here. Bush said opening up _the Lincoln Bedroom_ to big donors was bad for the country. He didn’t say you couldn’t stay somewhere else in the White House (there’s lots of closet space). And I see nothing in that story that shows that the money men stayed _in the Lincoln Bedroom_. See? \*Los Angeles attorney Donald Etra stayed at the Bush White House several times and at Camp David once. Etra, a Yale classmate of President Bush, said he and his wife were invited as friends, not because they each gave Bush $1,000 in 2000. “Friendship comes first, donations come second,” Etra said.\* You betcha. Of course, the Bush Administration has been busy on other fronts countering the scandals of the Clinton years. For instance, Bush has taken steps to assure that no dubious pardons will be made in the waning moments of _his_ Presidency. Hasn’t he? And on the other side, the Democrats have been pushing hard for reforms to eliminate the Electoral College and assure that the popular vote will determine Presidential elections. Right? I love principled politics. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/8 "2004-03-10T18:39:33Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …For instance, Bush has taken steps to assure that no dubious pardons will be made in the waning moments of _his_ Presidency… Of course, as of this date this remains unproven. We should all work to hasten the day when GeeDubya can demonstrate his sterling integrity in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/9 "2004-03-10T19:33:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Of course, as of this date this remains unproven. We should all work to hasten the day when GeeDubya can demonstrate his sterling integrity in this regard. I was being sarcastic. _Are_ there any written guidelines in existence (never mind the potential for weaseling around them)? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/10 "2004-03-10T19:57:29Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > “Close personal friends”? Some of them perhaps, although I would classify a number of them as business associates (who may or may not also be friends). I feel reasonable confident that the governors of Colorado and New York are not close personal firends, or if they are, are of very recent vintage. I see no claim of friendship for venture capitalist and Republican fundraiser Brad Freeman. On the other hand, the governors of states may well be staying for business reasons. We don’t have enough information to decide at the moment. Certainly not based on this article. > [@Otto](#): > > “Before he wielded power and influence”? When was that exactly? Bush fils has been able to wield power and influence most or all of his life. Much of that was borrowed power, borrowed from his father and grandfather (and their money) but it was available to him nonetheless. Anyone who buddied up to him before he ran for Texas governor had to either really like the guy or have some big brass balls. He was a pretty useless character until that point. A male Paris Hilton as it were. > [@Otto](#): > > Regardless, it gets right back to that personal favorite of mine, the appearance of impropriety. I’d expect it would be very hard to be President and avoid the apperance of impropriety. It isn’t as if he has a list of cases before him and the parties in those cases that he can just avoid. Virtually anyone could buddy up to him and the appearance of impropriety would be a virtual certainty. When you wield as much power and influence as he does you can affect the interests of virtually anoyone. So should he have no friends? No matter what he does he will always have the ability to favor his friends, no matter who they are or what their interests are. That’s just part of the office. What we should be concerned with is when his justifications for policy decisions seem to ring false or uncompelling. Then we can begin to see if there may be some alternative motive for this policy change and that would lead us to seeing how this would affect the interests of his friends. We can’t really work from the other direction because with the flexibility and amount of power that he has it is a virtual certainty that everything he does will positively affect someone he knows. That doesn’t mean it was his motive. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/11 "2004-03-10T21:14:27Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > We don’t have enough information to decide at the moment. Certainly not based on this article. Again, the reference to the treatment of Clinton for the same thing. “Where’s the outrage?” > [@](#): > > Anyone who buddied up to him before he ran for Texas governor had to either really like the guy or have some big brass balls. He was a pretty useless character until that point. Perhaps you’ve heard of his father? Perhaps you also know of his history of running failing businesses and getting bailed out by his father’s friends? Oh, yes, wealthy people who buddied up to him at \*any \* time in his life might well have had ulterior motives beyond the ones normal people would experience, mightn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/12 "2004-03-10T23:59:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Again, the reference to the treatment of Clinton for the same thing. “Where’s the outrage?” I wasn’t outraged at what happened in the Lincoln, or the Clinton for that matter, bedroom during Clinton’s tenure. Proof of selling stays in the White House for campaign contributions would have been something to be upset about. So if you’re railing against the tiny minded fools who were outraged at non-commercial use of the White House to accomodate actual friends of the first family when they were the Clintons, then go right ahead. At the moment though, absent evidence of actual transactions involving something given in exchange for the stay in the Lincoln Bedroom, this is the same situation and outrage at Bush for it would relegate you to the same level as those tiny minded fools. Any outrage over personal friends staying in the Lincoln bedroom would be rediculous. I find it equally rediculous when it is directed at Bush. The first family LIVES in the White House. I’ll be damned if someone tells me I’m wrong to invite a friend from childhood, a person who introduced me to my wife, to stay in a guest room in my own place of residence. Get a better list, provide some evidence of _quid pro quo_ then we’ll talk. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/13 "2004-03-11T01:04:35Z")
Mayhap it’s a matter of degrees. Clinton invited more than [three times](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/02/25/clinton.money/list.html) that number. Not that I really care… throw a fuckin’ slumber party in the Great Emancipator’s quarters, for all I give a damn. Wasn’t the Chinese contributions scandal the bigger story at the time? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/14 "2004-03-11T02:50:21Z")
No real disagreement on the little substance there is, Steven - but then, we’re still left with the manufactured outrage and the pious promise to “restore honor and dignity to the White House”. That hypocrisy and the contortions needed to defend it, which continues even today and even on this board, constitute the true subject here, not political fundraising methods. Exposing and examining hypocrisy is hardly acting the “small-minded fool”, it’s fighting ignorance. The same people who claimed to be defending a sacred principle not that long ago now claim not to give a damn. What’s the problem with calling them on it? That they might learn something about themselves or about the world? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/15 "2004-03-11T16:16:02Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Mayhap it’s a matter of degrees. Clinton invited more than [three times](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/02/25/clinton.money/list.html) that number. Not that I really care… throw a fuckin’ slumber party in the Great Emancipator’s quarters, for all I give a damn. > > Wasn’t the Chinese contributions scandal the bigger story at the time? I’m not particularly outraged by it either, although I don’t see how Clinton’s ~800 sleepovers over 4 years, are 3x Bush’s ~540 sleepovers over 3 years. (A guest every other night - even most politicians aren’t _that_ gregarious!) But that’s not that material; the fact remains that both of them had far more guests than is explained by friendship alone, or even friendship and working political (but nonmonetary) relationships. When Clinton was doing it, my basic feeling was that I’d rather see him give away a night in the Lincoln bedroom to a donor, than an oil lease in an environmentally sensitive wilderness. However, the point is that Bush did condemn such behavior when running against Gore in late 2000. Here he is from the [first Presidential debate](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/election/2000debates/1stdebate5.html): > [@](#): > > I felt like – that there needed to be a better sense of responsibility of what was going on in the White House. I believe that – I believe they’ve moved that sign, “The buck stops here,” from the Oval Office desk to “The buck stops here” on the Lincoln bedroom, and that’s not good for the country. It’s not right. We need to have a new look about how we conduct ourselves in office. And the Lincoln Bedroom sleepovers were one of his recurring examples for his claim that we needed to restore honor and dignity to the White House. No, I’m not outraged; I’m not even surprised. I’m just pointing out that Bush propelled himself into the Presidency partly on a condemnation of the very practice that he is now engaging in at roughly the same scale as his predecessor. That’s called hypocrisy. And I’m just adding it to the pile of reasons to believe that Bush’s words are meaningless, that there’s no reason why anyone (other than a rich person hoping for more tax cuts, or a corporate CEO hoping for fewer regulations) should believe a word this man says. By election day, I hope that every American knows how absurd it is to put “President Bush” and “man of integrity” in the same sentence. We’ve all got to have our goals in life. That’s one of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Anita\_Vacation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Anita\_Vacation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anita_Vacation)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/16 "2004-03-11T22:05:50Z")
I know that we usually don’t point out spelling errors and typos, but I’m afraid that people will not understand the subject of your thread. What you probably meant to say was: “Bush opens Lincoln Bedroom to Big Boners” Carry on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/17 "2004-03-11T23:19:47Z")
**Anita** , that’s what I thought the thread title was when I was skimming titles. I did a classic double-take. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/18 "2004-03-11T23:53:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not particularly outraged by it either, although I don’t see how Clinton’s ~800 sleepovers over 4 years, are 3x Bush’s ~540 sleepovers over 3 years. 270, RTF, according to your article. The number was split 'twixt Honest Abe’s place and Camp David. > [@](#): > > That’s called hypocrisy. Eh. I just call it politics, man. Half of them do everything that half of them condemn, and the other half just do most. > [@](#): > > And I’m just adding it to the pile of reasons to believe that Bush’s words are meaningless, that there’s no reason why anyone (other than a rich person hoping for more tax cuts, or a corporate CEO hoping for fewer regulations) should believe a word this man says. So in a sea of liars, you’re singling out one liar to call a liar? Whatever gives you kicks, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/19 "2004-03-11T23:57:18Z")
Dammit, forgot to say this… Look, RT, it’s no invalid counter to point out that most of Bush’s guests have been family friends or close associates. The list I linked to points out that they didn’t even include any of Bill’s 35 personal friends or relatives (or the 72 friends of Chelsea’s). Clinton got slammed for opening it to “anyone that would pay cash”. Bush opened it to friends and associates. NOT the same thing, so NOT hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507/20 "2004-03-12T01:35:56Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Dammit, forgot to say this… > > Look, RT, it’s no invalid counter to point out that most of Bush’s guests have been family friends or close associates. Cite? Good luck; ‘most of 540’ is a lot of friends and close associates. > [@](#): > > So in a sea of liars, you’re singling out one liar to call a liar? Whatever gives you kicks, buddy. If that’s your attitude, why bother with political debates at all? (MPSIMS is thataway, if that’s how you feel.) If every politician is constantly lying, then there’s really no point to it, you know. Realistically, that line can be dumped into any political debate anywhere, and the alternatives are to regard it either as a trump card that invalidates the worth of debating at all, or as a ridiculous red herring that should be tossed out with the garbage before it smells. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-opens-lincoln-bedroom-to-big-donors/233507.md?page=2)