# Bush orders flag at half staff for tsunami victims. WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617 "2005-01-02T02:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/1 "2005-01-02T02:00:05Z")
I just heard this on the news tonight. What the fuck is he thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/2 "2005-01-02T02:01:32Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I just heard this on the news tonight. What the fuck is he thinking? That it’s really sad 150,000 people died? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/3 "2005-01-02T02:03:38Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I just heard this on the news tonight. What the fuck is he thinking? Probably, “Gee, it would be nice to display a symbol of mourning for 150,000 dead people.” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/4 "2005-01-02T02:05:53Z")
I generally dislike Bush, but I can’t see the point of pitting him over a gesture of mourning for hundreds of thousands of dead. Perhaps you could gloss your OP? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/5 "2005-01-02T02:11:39Z")
What the fuck are you on about **Chefguy**? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/6 "2005-01-02T02:20:40Z")
Flying the flag at half-staff used to be reserved for the death of presidents or other heads of state. Of late, it seems to be used to honor everything that remotely smacks of sentimentality. It seems to me that it lessens the meaning of things when it becomes a cliche. I have nothing but sympathy for the victims of the earthquake and have contributed money and goods to their plight (unlike, I’m sure, some of you smartasses). This just seems to be pandering and pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/7 "2005-01-02T02:22:15Z")
Did you think the same thing after they were lowered on 9/11, **Chefguy**? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/8 "2005-01-02T02:24:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Flying the flag at half-staff used to be reserved for the death of presidents or other heads of state. Of late, it seems to be used to honor everything that remotely smacks of sentimentality. It seems to me that it lessens the meaning of things when it becomes a cliche. I have nothing but sympathy for the victims of the earthquake and have contributed money and goods to their plight (unlike, I’m sure, some of you smartasses). This just seems to be pandering and pointless. So, we have possibly the world’s greatest tragedy happening, and you think it’s cliched to express sympathy in a formal way such as lowering the flag? You’re bloody idiot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5daacb/32.png) [@Tikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tikki)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/9 "2005-01-02T02:30:07Z")
I have to agree with Kambuckta. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/10 "2005-01-02T02:30:39Z")
Cause you know, it’s just a flag. A piece of colored cloth that is so fucking dear to us that we can only lower it for dead presidents. Nothing else. It’s like a rule in the flag book, and if that rule is ever broken, dudes like **Chefguy** go ape shit ballistic. wanker ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/11 "2005-01-02T02:31:38Z")
Further evidence that hatred for Bush comes from irrational people. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/12 "2005-01-02T02:33:51Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I have nothing but sympathy for the victims of the earthquake and have contributed money and goods to their plight (unlike, I’m sure, some of you smartasses). A sentence that no doubt was painfully removed, at the last minute, from Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. I’m no fan of Bush and I think this is a lovely thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/13 "2005-01-02T02:39:50Z")
Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7 > [@](#): > > The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection - > > the term “half-staff” means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff; > > the term “executive or military department” means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and > > the term “Member of Congress” means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico. My thread has nothing to do with George Bush. It’s directed at the action, not the person. The action is inappropriate, IMO, and is pandering to those who criticized the administration as not being sympathetic enough to the situation. It’s reducing our nation’s symbol to the same status as a yellow ribbon. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/14 "2005-01-02T02:40:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Further evidence that hatred for Bush comes from irrational people. What was the point in making that grossly partisan stab in a thread that, so far, has been non-partisan? I haven’t seen anyone, of any political stripe, support **Chefguy** yet. Do you think it would be fair if a Democrat went into a thread where a Republican said something stupid and said “Further evidence that Republicans are dumb.”? If so, you’re losing the credibility needed to bitch about comments like that when you make comments like the above… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/15 "2005-01-02T02:42:40Z")
Personally, as we approach the 22nd hour of 2005 (around here anyway), I’m seeing a number of signs of increased hope and humaneness here and there. There was a thread in GQ, of all places, that touched a special concern of mine and made me feel good that someone else saw it as a problem needing work. **Prisoner** ’s _volte face_ post of course was a wonderful thing. I received a special call from my sister-in-spirit that lifted my mood immensely. And GWB is showing signs of trying to do the right thing instead of posturing, which was, I think, my major complaint with him – he was acting like President of his supporters, not of the American people – and now he’s reaching out to those hit by catastrophe as this country used to do. **Chefguy** , the flag is flown at half staff **whenever the President** (or the Governor or the Mayor, for concerns affecting states and cities) **so orders**. Period. The **custom** is to fly it at half-staff for 30 days or equivalent for the death of ex-presidents, for shorter terms to honor the death of prominent Americans (e.g., Eleanor Roosevelt, John Foster Dulles), and occasionally for the death of important friends of America (e.g., Sir Winston Churchill). When a disaster is truly national or greater in scope, it too is commemorated in the way the President orders. It’s one of the few things given over totally to his untrammelled judgment – and little as I like GWB, he did the right thing here. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/16 "2005-01-02T02:45:47Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Of late, it seems to be used to honor everything that remotely smacks of sentimentality. It seems to me that it lessens the meaning of things when it becomes a cliche. Yeah - if we lower the flag every time 150,000+ people die in a natural disaster of horrific proportions, what are we going to do when something _bad_ happens? What will it _mean_? Oh, the humanity! ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/17 "2005-01-02T02:52:36Z")
Chefguy makes goatse man feel inadequate in the “largest assholes” category. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/18 "2005-01-02T02:53:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Of late, it seems to be used to honor everything that remotely smacks of sentimentality. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/19 "2005-01-02T02:55:11Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > What was the point in making that grossly partisan stab in a thread that, so far, has been non-partisan? I haven’t seen anyone, of any political stripe, support **Chefguy** yet. Do you think it would be fair if a Democrat went into a thread where a Republican said something stupid and said “Further evidence that Republicans are dumb.”? If so, you’re losing the credibility needed to bitch about comments like that when you make comments like the above… Yeah, that was over the top. Further proof that I’m irrational myself. 🙂 I withdraw the comment and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617/20 "2005-01-02T02:56:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7 > > My thread has nothing to do with George Bush. It’s directed at the action, not the person. The action is inappropriate, IMO, and is pandering to those who criticized the administration as not being sympathetic enough to the situation. It’s reducing our nation’s symbol to the same status as a yellow ribbon. Ahem. Might I point Mssr.Assmonkey to another cite? From [here:](http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html) **Sec. 10. — Modification of rules and customs by President** Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-orders-flag-at-half-staff-for-tsunami-victims-wtf/282617.md?page=2)