# Bush pardon saves two lives. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551 "2006-11-23T15:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/1 "2006-11-23T15:14:44Z")
Yesterday President Bush spared the lives of two Thanksgiving turkeys, Flyer and Fryer. But as Governor of Texas, Bush never did the same for human beings who were sentenced to death during his reign. He never pardoned or commuted one death sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/2 "2006-11-23T15:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] Yesterday President Bush spared the lives of two Thanksgiving turkeys, Flyer and Fryer. But as Governor of Texas, Bush never did the same for human beings who were sentenced to death during his reign. He never pardoned or commuted one death sentence. [/QUOTE] Bush looks after his own. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/3 "2006-11-23T15:20:56Z")
Does the pres usually pardon two turkeys or is this photo-op inflation? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/4 "2006-11-23T15:42:02Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] Yesterday President Bush spared the lives of two Thanksgiving turkeys, Flyer and Fryer. But as Governor of Texas, Bush never did the same for human beings who were sentenced to death during his reign. He never pardoned or commuted one death sentence. [/QUOTE] Some of the death sentences carried out during Bush’s governorship (selected randomly): [ul] [li]James Davis, executed in 1999, beat three children to death with a lead pipe while burglarizing their home.[/li][li]Irineo Montoya, executed in 1997, was picked up hitchhiking; he stabbed the man who offered him the ride 23 times, stripped the body, and dumped it in an orchard. At his conviction, he told the court he would have the prosecuter and trial judge killed.[/li][li]David Stoker, executed in 1997, killed a convenience store clerk for $60.[/li][li]Ricky Lee Green, executed in 1997, castrated and murdered a man after having sex with him on a beach.[/li][/ul] So boo hoo. Seems to me the turkeys were more worthy of life. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/5 "2006-11-23T15:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=Uvula Donor] …Irineo Montoya, executed in 1997, was picked up hitchhiking; he stabbed the man who offered him the ride 23 times, stripped the body, and dumped it in an orchard. At his conviction, he told the court he would have the prosecuter and trial judge killed… [/QUOTE] In all fairness though, the six-fingered driver did kill his father. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/6 "2006-11-23T16:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] Does the pres usually pardon two turkeys or is this photo-op inflation? [/QUOTE] Maybe they just wanted to make sure he’d pronounce it right either way. “Okay… let’s try it _again_… Repeat after me, Mr. President… ‘I officially pardon this turkey, F-LLL-ier.’ As in ‘fly?’ Suggesting freedom and inspiration? C’mon, you can do it.” “Er… I efficially pardon Frier… ah, shit! I can’t help it; he just looks so darn tasty. Plus I can’t help thinking of all those death row inmates back in Texas. Get it? Frier, hee hee…” ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/7 "2006-11-23T16:02:13Z")
What’s the implication of your post, Uvula Donor, that all Bush’s executions were justified? All were guilty? There was no room for any mercy whatsoever? \*\*"Bush presided over a record setting 152 executions, including the 1998 execution of fellow born-again Christian Karla Faye Tucker, a convicted murderer who later led a prison ministry. Forty of Bush’s executions were carried out in 2000, the year the Bush presidential campaign was spotlighting their candidate’s strong law enforcement record. The Washington Post’s Richard Cohen reported in October 2000 that one of the execution chamber’s “tie-down team” members, Fred Allen, had to prepare so many people for lethal injections during 2000, he quit his job in disgust. Bush mocked Tucker’s appeal for clemency. In an interview with Talk magazine, Bush imitated Tucker’s appeal for him to spare her life - pursing his lips, squinting his eyes, and in a squeaky voice saying, “Please don’t kill me.” " \*\* Read the rest at [http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html](http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/8 "2006-11-23T16:18:43Z")
What a completely stupid tradition. Does the president and his family ever eat tofu-turkey today? No, they just eat different turkeys. Whichever president first breaks this idiotic tradition gets my vote for re-election, issues be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/9 "2006-11-23T16:36:42Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] What’s the implication of your post, Uvula Donor, that all Bush’s executions were justified? All were guilty? There was no room for any mercy whatsoever? \*\*"Bush presided over a record setting 152 executions, including the 1998 execution of fellow born-again Christian Karla Faye Tucker, a convicted murderer who later led a prison ministry. Forty of Bush’s executions were carried out in 2000, the year the Bush presidential campaign was spotlighting their candidate’s strong law enforcement record. The Washington Post’s Richard Cohen reported in October 2000 that one of the execution chamber’s “tie-down team” members, Fred Allen, had to prepare so many people for lethal injections during 2000, he quit his job in disgust. Bush mocked Tucker’s appeal for clemency. In an interview with Talk magazine, Bush imitated Tucker’s appeal for him to spare her life - pursing his lips, squinting his eyes, and in a squeaky voice saying, “Please don’t kill me.” " \*\* Read the rest at [http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html](http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html) [/QUOTE] Ah, a thoroughly dispassionate and reputable cite. You don’t see many of those around. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/10 "2006-11-23T16:49:32Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Ah, a thoroughly dispassionate and reputable cite. You don’t see many of those around. [/QUOTE] Is an article from the New York Times reliable enough for you, **Mala**? Texas Executions: GW Bush Has Defined Himself, Unforgettably, As Shallow And Callous by Anthony Lewis BOSTON-There have been questions all along about the depth and seriousness of George W. Bush. They have been brought into sharp focus now by a surprising issue: the way the death penalty is administered in Texas. In his comments on that subject Governor Bush has defined himself, unforgettably, as shallow and callous. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/11 "2006-11-23T16:54:27Z")
Oops. The article was published on Saturday, June 17, 2000 in the New York Times and appeared (where I found it) at [http://www.commondreams.org/views/061700-102.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/views/061700-102.htm) But it’s lies, right? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/12 "2006-11-23T17:08:00Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] What’s the implication of your post, Uvula Donor, that all Bush’s executions were justified? All were guilty? There was no room for any mercy whatsoever? [/QUOTE] No, the implication of my post was simply that it’s too bad some people can’t just enjoy a holiday without dragging their petty little _Bush iz t3h evilz!!!111!_ crap into it. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/13 "2006-11-23T17:12:03Z")
[QUOTE=Uvula Donor] No, the implication of my post was simply that it’s too bad some people can’t just enjoy a holiday without dragging their petty little _Bush iz t3h evilz!!!111!_ crap into it. [/QUOTE] Well, to be fair, Bush is the one who brought “_Bush iz t3h gud!!!111_” into the holidays by pardoning not one, but two turkeys (and then eating some other, nameless turkeys- presumably minority turkeys). Refuting it isn’t really bringing in petty little crap- it’s just responding to what he did. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/14 "2006-11-23T17:14:53Z")
That wasn’t an “article,” it was an opinion piece by well-known liberal Anthony Lewis. Incidentally, did you know that Democrat Ann Richards never pardoned a single person on death row? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/15 "2006-11-23T17:14:55Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] \*\*"Bush presided over a record setting 152 executions, including the 1998 execution of fellow born-again Christian Karla Faye Tucker, a convicted murderer who later led a prison ministry. [/QUOTE] Oh, yeah, convenient that your quotation leaves out the part about Tucker being a murderer who killed two people in their sleep with a pickaxe, bragged about doing it, and stated at her trial that she “had an orgasm” every time she swung the pick into the victims. Or that commuting her sentence to life imprisonment meant she’d be eligible for parole in 2003. Mmm-hmm. All things considered, I would have freed the birds over the scumbags, too. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/16 "2006-11-23T18:21:34Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] Incidentally, did you know that Democrat Ann Richards never pardoned a single person on death row? [/QUOTE] Incidentally, did you know that Texas governors can’t pardon prisoners on death row? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/17 "2006-11-23T19:17:49Z")
[Executive Clemency in Texas](http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html): > [@](#): > > The governor has the authority to grant executive clemency upon the written recommendation of a majority of the Board of Pardons and Paroles. Executive clemency includes full pardons, conditional pardons, pardons based on innocence, commutations of sentence, and emergency medical reprieves. In capital cases, the Board considers petitions for commutation of sentence to life in prison and for a reprieve of execution. If the Board recommends clemency in a death penalty case, the governor may grant commutation or reprieve. The governor can also grant a one-time thirty-day reprieve of execution in these cases. On February 2, 1998 (the eve of Karla Faye Tucker’s scheduled execution), the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles, which could have recommend a pardon for Tucker to Gov. George Bush, rejected her request to have her death sentence changed to life in prison. Therefore, Governor Bush had no consitutional power to pardon her or to commute her sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/18 "2006-11-23T21:41:57Z")
[QUOTE=Uvula Donor] Oh, yeah, convenient that your quotation leaves out the part about Tucker being a murderer who killed two people in their sleep with a pickaxe, bragged about doing it, and stated at her trial that she “had an orgasm” every time she swung the pick into the victims. Or that commuting her sentence to life imprisonment meant she’d be eligible for parole in 2003. Mmm-hmm. All things considered, I would have freed the birds over the scumbags, too. [/QUOTE] As a Christian myself, if I’m ever guilty of the cold-blooded murder of two sleeping people, deal with me as the law sees fit; and you may cite this post at my trial. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/19 "2006-11-23T22:27:09Z")
As Christian, maybe you should remember that Jesus himself said to forgive, forgive, forgive. As bad as Tucker was, she did seem to genuinely regret her sins, and she led an exemplary life in prison. Of course you can say it was a sham, but others will take the other side. But the point is, Bush has no empathy. Furthermore you Bush defenders in general., seem to be choosing your words very carefully about the conditions under which a Texas Governor can commute a sentence. If it were as hard to do as you seem to be inferring, then why is Bush held in such contempt for never, ever commuting a single death sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551/20 "2006-11-23T22:32:59Z")
Read the [Texas Constitution](http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/txconst/sections/cn000400-001100.html): > [@](#): > > In all criminal cases, except treason and impeachment, the Governor shall have power, after conviction, on the written signed recommendation and advice of the Board of Pardons and Paroles, or a majority thereof, to grant reprieves and commutations of punishment and pardons; and under such rules as the Legislature may prescribe, and upon the written recommendation and advice of a majority of the Board of Pardons and Paroles, he shall have the power to remit fines and forfeitures. The Governor shall have the power to grant one reprieve in any capital case for a period not to exceed thirty (30) days; and he shall have power to revoke conditional pardons. With the advice and consent of the Legislature, he may grant reprieves, commutations of punishment and pardons in cases of treason. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-pardon-saves-two-lives/381551.md?page=2)