# Bush Press Conference: I couldn't take it anymore... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888 "2004-04-14T01:10:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/81 "2004-04-14T16:16:04Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Why all the shit given to **L\_C** for a relatively (or should be) obvious statement? We have an inarticulate, morally entrenched and ideologically calcified slow-thinker in the nation’s highest office. How’d he get there? And what better place to ask that question than in a thread dealing with the PoTUS’ latest display of ineptitude? > > **L\_C** ’s right that GWB is a symptom of some larger civic malady in the US. Where I strongly disagree with our British pal is that he appears to think (correct me if I’m wrong, Werewolf) the malady _is_ the US political system. I think that the systemic failure which led to the Man Who Fell Up\* coming to power has little to do with what’s installed into our system of government, and much to do with what is missing. I think we’ve simply failed to respond constitutionally to the technological advances that allow plutocratic forces a major advantage in the forging of public opinion. Before electronic media, it would’ve taken major collusion among all of the press outlets of the country for one candidate or party’s message to overwhelm the others’. Now, all it takes is money. Politics is no longer a competition of ideas, it’s a battle for primetime attention. That’s a purchased commodity. > > IMHO, YMMV and all that jazz. > \*[sub]Thanks, **'luce**.[/sub] Well I was going to say pretty much the same thing, except **Xeno** said it about 50 times more eloquently. Instead I’ll just add that he, and **London** , are spot on. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/82 "2004-04-14T16:42:03Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Well for one the Gilligans story was basically correct it was just sloppy presentation in a live segment that caused all the fuss. The BBC management fucked up by blindly supporting their man without actually checking their facts. You miss the point, which was that the system in Britain permitted what some of you are calling a witch hunt. Very hard to imagine NPR (less influential force that it is in America) ever being the target of something like that. “Plutocratic forces”? Band name? We’ve had good and bad presidents. This bad one is more unfortunate because he’s in office at such a critical time. Moaning and self-flagellating because of “the system” is futile and self-deceiving. It’s not perfect, just better than anything else. Get off your duffs, work for change, and vote. One wonders how much the anti-Bush hysteria will get people on the fence to vote for him just out of disgust for the doom-shouters. And it _is_ tempting. Nah, not really. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/83 "2004-04-14T16:52:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s not perfect, just better than anything else. Now that makes you sound very arrogant. You’re familiar enough with all the other forms of Western Democracy to make such a statement I take it? For example you know all about the system of PR that Ireland has as opposed to Holland and how this changes the nature of our democracies? I’m not saying that any system is better BTW as I’m not that familiar with a lot of them to say. You however seem to be so why don’t you start a great debate about it and show me my it’s better than every other system. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/84 "2004-04-14T17:05:35Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jackmannii** : > > “Plutocratic forces”? Band name? Don’t you think “Civic Malady” would appeal to the kids better? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/85 "2004-04-14T17:16:01Z")
> [@Cinnamon Girl](#): > > I _will_ remember that tonight he said that every man, woman and child is entitled to freedom. I will also remember that he would consider it a victory to amend the constitution to define the freedom of choice men & women don’t have. > > Thanks for making yourself crystal clear, Shrub. Stand by your convictions as long as they don’t offend your Christian sensibilities. Consider me thick, but the wording of this scares me, and I don’t even really know what he’s insinuating. Can someone help enlighten me? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/86 "2004-04-14T17:19:58Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Now that makes you sound very arrogant. Sorry babe. Can’t be half as arrogant, though, as someone’s proclaiming (based on a loftily ignorant perch across the Atlantic) that GWB’s presence in office confirms the fundamental failure of the American system. > [@](#): > > …why don’t you start a great debate about it and show me my it’s better than every other system. I feel no compelling urge to convince you. I have great respect for Holland, however. Canals, cheese _and_ legalized drugs and prostitution? What a trifecta! Come 2012, if I’m not locked away in some gulag by Jeb Bush, I plan to make it over there for the next Floriade. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/87 "2004-04-14T17:26:49Z")
So for those who are saying it is a problem with the system, what exactly is that problem? Even in the best system, if it relies upon a choice of the people, there is going to be GWB every couple generations. How do you eliminate this as a possibility? Just because I lose the lottery doesn’t mean it’s fixed. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/88 "2004-04-14T17:29:59Z")
Let me clarify that last statement as I can see people jumping all over me for it. My point is that just because the outcome isn’t what you want does not mean the system does not work. Better example, five people want to go out to dinner together and decide to vote on a restaurant. I pick a nice restaurant, but the others each decide that they haven’t been to McDonald’s in a while and would like to go there. Yes, it sucks, and yes, it is dumb, but that is what we decided. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/89 "2004-04-14T17:49:10Z")
From my point of view, the system is perfect for _weeding out_ the best candidates. Essentially, the “skills” and resources needed to become president, and to _be_ president are quite different. In one you need to be a fast talking salesman, and the other you need to reasoned decision maker. Then throw in that you need at least $100 million, and the people you are most likely to get it from, then you have some real problems. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/90 "2004-04-14T17:51:46Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > From my point of view, the system is perfect for _weeding out_ the best candidates. Essentially, the “skills” and resources needed to become president, and to _be_ president are quite different. In one you need to be a fast talking salesman, and the other you need to reasoned decision maker. Then throw in that you need at least $100 million, and the people you are most likely to get it from, then you have some real problems. I neglected to mention partisan bickering too. Most of these people have to be against what the other side says, even if the otherside has a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/91 "2004-04-14T18:32:26Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’d be curious to see if anyone can dig up a quote from a president in the modern era who, during a press conferences, admitted to making a major mistake about any significant policy action-- especially one involving military action. Bush’s oppoents seem to be just dying to see him say he was wrong, and want to piss all over him for not doing so. I think that’s just utterly unrealistic. Maybe I’m wrong on that, and I’ll stand corrected if I am. From [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=250810&page=3) [quote] I just wanted to add a sample of a president admitting a mistake: Quote: The word spread quickly around the globe that the United States had made an unprovoked attack on a tiny Latin neighbor. It was a fiasco, the worst defeat of JFK’s career. Yet Kennedy did not pretend that all was well and walk away from his obligation to the fighters and to history. He issued stern warnings to Castro to keep the prisoners alive and launched negotiations to free them. Twenty months later, they were freed in exchange for $53 million in American medicines and other provisions. At his press conference accepting full blame, Kennedy uttered one of his most famous statements: “Victory has a hundred fathers, and defeat is an orphan.” Then he embraced the orphan with words that Bush has yet to utter: “I am the responsible officer of the government.” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/92 "2004-04-14T18:59:30Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > OK, Americans, I hope you know that theres only one way that you can start to regain the confidence of the rest of the world: Vote Bush the fuck out of office. Please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top? Only if Diebold lets us. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/93 "2004-04-14T19:54:51Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Only if Diebold lets us. Or if Nader drops out. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/94 "2004-04-14T20:19:58Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > OK, Americans, I hope you know that theres only one way that you can start to regain the confidence of the rest of the world: Vote Bush the fuck out of office. Please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top? I might be persuaded to, as would others I’m sure, except for the small problem of the loathsome prick running on the Democratic ticket as his opposition. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/95 "2004-04-14T20:26:41Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > I might be persuaded to, as would others I’m sure, except for the small problem of the loathsome prick running on the Democratic ticket as his opposition. My apologies. I will take Kerry, or anyone else over Bush, any day of the week. Fuck, I’ll vote for a potato. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/96 "2004-04-14T21:56:11Z")
Then you can empathize with how I feel about Kerry. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/97 "2004-04-14T22:03:26Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > Then you can empathize with how I feel about Kerry. It’s that simple. Actually no I can’t. I feel that Kerry is an idiot and I don’t really like him, but I have to say Bush is far more dangerous as he’s turning the world against us. What damage do you envision Kerry doing? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/98 "2004-04-14T22:10:55Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Fuck, I’ll vote for a potato. Well all right then, [here’s your guy](http://204.255.212.10/~jthorsse/mrp.html). Don’t come crying to me when he gets just enough of the vote to throw Idaho and Maine to Bush. Not that the linked site is very good - I just enjoy the irony of his misspelling ‘Quayle’… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/99 "2004-04-14T22:16:45Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I will take Kerry, or anyone else over Bush, any day of the week. > > Fuck, I’ll vote for a potato. I’ve already stated my willingness to vote for a ham sandwich. And I’ll accept a potato as its running mate, as long as it’s not German potato salad. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Don’t forget that Most people voted against GWB. He wasn’t really elected. The system worked fine and Gore was the rightful winner. The problem is that the system was corrupted by the Bush family. Bush cheated his way into office. He went outside the system. Hopefully, the public will be more vigilent this time and not allow that to happen again. The system works fine when it’s actually followed. You know, I really hate it when people I otherwise tend to agree with say stuff like this. I hate it because it is simply not true. The system was followed every step of the way, with great vigor, determination and cut-throat mentality from both sides. The most that can be said is that the Supreme Court should have said “None of our fucking business - it’s Florida’s electoral laws that hold sway here, and Florida’s Supreme Court decision stands.” But it is the Supreme Court, and pretty much by definition what is says is the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888/100 "2004-04-14T22:21:26Z")
I find it hard to respect an attribute-less ruling that says “Here’s our decision, but don’t use it for establishing precedent in the future.” What the fuck is the use of a judicial decision if the judges don’t have the _cojones_ to stand by it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-i-couldnt-take-it-anymore/239888.md?page=6)