# Bush Press Conference Snubs Helen Thomas **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846 "2003-03-08T03:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MommaBear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@MommaBear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MommaBear)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/41 "2003-03-09T17:40:58Z")
It’s like watching an elderly parent start to show signs of old age dementia; who will step forward to take charge? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/42 "2003-03-09T18:18:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **Lizard** said: > Yes, he was. Testimony before a grand jury is legally binding tedstimony given under oath. He never lied to the _grand jury_. The blow job question came in the Paula Jones civil deposition. [/quote] I hardly see how it’s “debatable,” since a) He denied sexual contact with Monica Lewinsky, and b) the semen on her dress was proven to be his. [/quote] He didn’t deny sexual _contact_, he denied sexual _intercourse_. The phrase “oral sex” was specifically crossed off of the definition for sex that he was given during the deposition. He tried to be a little too clever. He wasn’t going to volunteer information and the question was not relevant to the case anyway. > [@](#): > > Whether it was relevent was something for the judge in the Paula Jones case to decide, and nobody else. Dertainly not you or me. And “fraudulent”? The Supreme Court of the United States allowed it to proceed, and I daresay they know the law better than most about whether a suit has merit or not. The judge dismissed the case for lack of merit. The supreme Court did not rule on the merits of the case, only on the question of whether a sitting president can be civilly sued. The definition of perjury requires that the “lie” must be about a matter which is _material to the case_. Clearly, a consensual BJ had nothing to do with a sexual harrassment suit. The question was a set up, a perjury trap set out of desperation after the inquisitor, Starr had wasted untold millions of taxpayers’ money chasing phony scandals and utterly failing to turn up any corruption. The best he could do was a blow job. This Clinton stuff is really all _tu quoque_ anyway. It has no bearing on _Junior’s_ integrity at all. > [@](#): > > And this whole issue is a straw man anyway, since I said the President is not obligated to talk to the press. Congress is not the press, and the State of the Union address is not a press conference. This is a distinction without a difference since the first amendment guarantees the right of the press to be there. > [@](#): > > Congress could elect to bar all media and members of the public when the address is given, if it so wished, and there is nothing anyone could do about it. I call bullshit on this one-- right of a free press and all that… > [@](#): > > The press does not have the right to “hound” anyone. Well, i guess it depends on what your definition of “hound” is. The press certainly has the right to ask questions, and to persist in asking questions, no matter how embarrassing that may be to the president. > [@](#): > > This is real news to me. I’m represented by the press? I don’t recall voting for any reporters to be placed on the White House press pool. I was under the impression that my Congressmen represented me. And here I thought reporters just worked for companies interested in turning a profit, when they all they really were doing was representing ME! The public depends on the press to get reliable and true oinformation about its government. This is the first and foremost ethicla responsibility of the press. Profit is second-- and let’s not forget that some of the press _is_ publicly funded. The White house press secretary, specifically, works for the tax payer and his job is to answer the questions of the people. He is not supposed to be a PR guy for the prez, although that is what the job has become. > [@](#): > > Well, since nobody has established that he is “afraid,” I would say this is yet another straw man. When he establishes that only certain questions may be asked, when he shows abject terror at the thought of having to go off-script, when refuses to make eye-contact with reporters who will ask tough questions, I will personally assume that he is afraid to defend his policies. YMMV. > [@](#): > > There is not a single law, federal or state, in the books anywhere that gives the press the power to force anyone to do anything. Please, :rolleyes:,let’s not play semantic games. I don’t literally mean “force,” I just mean that they have to be relentless in confronting him with questions. They should be “forceful” in their badger9ing. They should not just passively accept whatever he says. > [@](#): > > An attitude as cynical as yours is frankly dangerous. Not everything said by Bush (or any other president, including Clinton) is just a lie delivered with intent to manipulate the public. Thinking like that leads everyone to feel we can’t trust anybody, and we’re all fucked. Clearly a lot of it _is_ just manipulative lying, though, and how are we supposed to know the truth from the bullshit without confrontational questioning. Personall, i don’t think this president deserves any more respect or dignity than a guy caught telemarketing swampland to widows on a _60 Minutes_ segment. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/43 "2003-03-09T18:25:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll take revealing quotes for $500, Alex. > > ## quote: > > Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Because everbody isn’t as smart as I am. I should have put a winky there. I was just being facetious, as I am often wont to do. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/44 "2003-03-09T20:58:36Z")
Anyway, **furt** , it’s obvious **Diogenes the Cynic** _is_ smarter than ::ahem:: some people. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MommaBear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@MommaBear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MommaBear)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/45 "2003-03-09T21:11:54Z")
Perhaps, then, we should accord Diogenes the Cynic the same amount of respect he affords POTUS… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/46 "2003-03-09T23:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*What “events of the past few years” have proven that GWB is not an idiot? \*\* His administration’s policies in key areas including taxes and the environment have gone through with minimal effective opposition. He has gotten approval for undeclared war in a sharply divided Congress. He’s led his party to a strengthened hand in said Congress. You could argue that his policies are largely moronic (and we’d find areas of agreement) and that his successes are largely traceable to his opponents being even dumber than he is. Or you could acknowledge that he’s a canny operator, stop underestimating him and cease with the pointless and moldering insults. They do your position no good at all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/47 "2003-03-10T00:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jackmanni** said: > Or you could acknowledge that he’s a canny operator, stop underestimating him and cease with the pointless and moldering insults. They do your position no good at all. I’d say you had a point if we didn’t know as much as we do about the influence of Karl Rove. I personally don’t believe that GWB has anything much to do with the machinations of his own presidency. I think he just goes where they tell him to go and says what they tell him to say. He has admitted in the past that he does not read written policies and that he relies on his advisors to explain things to him. I also think that he got a huge political boost from 9/11. Rallying around the president is a natural public response to a national crisis. It doesn’t matter who the president _is_. The same kind of jump in approval ratings would have happened for Gore, or for Pat Buchanan, or for Pee Wee Herman or for Cher. Intelligence and/or competence have nothing to do with it. Before 9/11, Bush was floundering with 50ish approval ratings, a sinking economy, no vision, no charisma and no real plan forv the future. 9/11 was the best damn thing that ever happened to him. You’ve enumerated a number of bad policies which Bush has gotten through congress largely on the strength of his 9/11 currency. That currency won’t last forever. ---
**Author:** ![MommaBear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@MommaBear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MommaBear)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/48 "2003-03-10T00:32:57Z")
… Intelligence and/or competence have nothing to do with it … Thus spake Diogenes the Cynic; might we not judge him by the same words? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/49 "2003-03-10T01:11:52Z")
Welcome to the boards, **MommaBear**. I think you’ll find **Diogenes the Cynic** to be much more intelligent and competent than you imagine. Lurk a while. You’ll find intelligence her even among those with whom you disagree. That’s what makes the SDMB worth participating in. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/50 "2003-03-10T01:21:28Z")
Hey, thanks, **DesertGeezer**. 🙂 Hi, **MommaBear** , I tend to be somewhat hyperbolic in political threads but I’m much more calm in other threads. Really, I am. Get to know me. You’ll like me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/51 "2003-03-10T17:01:12Z")
\*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## And this whole issue is a straw man anyway, since I said the President is not obligated to talk to the press. Congress is not the press, and the State of the Union address is not a press conference. > > This is a distinction without a difference since the first amendment guarantees the right of the press to be there. You’re just making stuff up now. > [@](#): > > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/52 "2003-03-10T17:06:26Z")
What part of “freedom of the press” do you not understand? The Capitol building and the White House are public property. The press has a right to report on whatever happens in those buildings. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/53 "2003-03-10T17:42:28Z")
There’s a difference between > [@](#): > > The press has a right to report on whatever happens in those buildings. and > [@](#): > > …the first amendment guarantees the right of the press to be there. What part of “freedom of the press” do you understand? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/54 "2003-03-10T18:12:31Z")
I fail to comprehend your distinction. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of the press. Freedom of the press implies a right to cover events which occur on public property and on the public dime. Therefore the First Amendment guarantees the right of the press to be present at the SOTU adress. What’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/55 "2003-03-10T18:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I fail to comprehend your distinction. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of the press. Freedom of the press implies a right to cover events which occur on public property and on the public dime. Therefore the First Amendment guarantees the right of the press to be present at the SOTU adress. What’s the problem? \*\* I don’t agree. Freedom of the press means that the government can’t stop them from printing whatever they want to. I don’t believe it requires the government to cooperate with the press. Note that only a few selected media people are accorded the privilege of being present in the White House, but the entire press is free from government interference in what they choose to print. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/56 "2003-03-10T18:35:25Z")
My point is that the White House cannot categorically deny _all_ press access to an event which is staged on public property. They obviously cannot open up the doors to every single reporter in the world so they choose what is, ostensibly, a representative sample. An ethical and responsible reporter will push and perservere as hard as she legally can to get to get facts from our elected representatives. It is not illegal to ask the president questions. It is also not illegal for the president to evade those questions. It is, however, chickenshit and not very ethical. I fear that this administration is trying to move away from an authentically representative press pool and into a pool of hand-picked sycophants who will serve as publicists rather than objective journalists. \*disclaimer: my mother was a political reporter for twenty years. I have a naturally protective instinct for Helen Thomas because she reminds me of my mom. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/57 "2003-03-10T18:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > My point is that the White House cannot categorically deny _all_ press access to an event which is staged on public property. I guess we’ll just have to disagree. Seems to me there are lots of events on government property that are not open to the press. Of course, we don’t read about them in the press. 😉 > [@](#): > > … It is also not illegal for the president to evade those questions. It is, however, chickenshit and not very ethical. I agree. But, I don’t really understand all the bellyaching on this thread. The President told us that he will disarm Iraq with or without UN approval and he gave us his reasons. That’s what we wanted to know. He didn’t deal with reasons for opposing his policy, but that’s not his job. His opponents can explain their POV at _their_ press conference. E.g. people like Nancy Peloci, Ted Kennedy and Tom Daschle have done just that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/58 "2003-03-10T19:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > **december** said: > I agree. But, I don’t really understand all the bellyaching on this thread. The President told us that he will disarm Iraq with or without UN approval and he gave us his reasons. That’s what we wanted to know. I strongly disagree that he gave any “reasons.” The way I see it, he asserted that he will stage an illegal, unprovoked invasion of another country, and then refused to justify his intentions with any substantive answers. He is using billions of taxpayer dollars to commit this crime, the least he can do is explain himself. (“Saddam is evil” is not an explanation) ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/59 "2003-03-10T19:34:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I fail to comprehend your distinction. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of the press. Freedom of the press implies a right to cover events which occur on public property and on the public dime. Therefore the First Amendment guarantees the right of the press to be present at the SOTU adress. What’s the problem? \*\* I was just pointing out a fault in a part of the case you were making earlier. It’s a fairly significant distinction. They have a right to report facts, analyze, deduce, etc… (basically anything but try to hurt someone by reporting things they know to be not true). That’s it. Any other ‘right’ they do have that the public doesn’t is a result of a mere law or regulation. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846/60 "2003-03-10T19:48:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I strongly disagree that he gave any “reasons.” The way I see it, he asserted that he will stage an illegal, unprovoked invasion of another country, and then refused to justify his intentions with any substantive answers. He is using billions of taxpayer dollars to commit this crime, the least he can do is explain himself. (“Saddam is evil” is not an explanation) \*\* No. You assert that he will stage an illegal, unprovoked invasion of another country. He asserted he evaluated that information he has and came to the conclusion that the Iraqi government constitutes a [CLANCY]clear and present danger[/CLANCY]. You (and many other people) would like to have that information and come to your own conclusion. Or, you don’t believe it even exists and Bush/Rove have enthralled Powell, Rice, and a host of other people. Sorry for the mini-hijack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-press-conference-snubs-helen-thomas/159846.md?page=4)