# Bush Says: "The Iraqis Owe Us a Debt of Gratitude" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013 "2007-01-15T01:37:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/1 "2007-01-15T01:37:06Z")
I just heard him say it. Hard to believe I had heard it, but I’m pretty sure I did. Will someone kindly tell me I’m drug-addled or otherwise impaired? I don’t want to believe such a blithering idiot has my fate in his hands. He didn’t really say that, right? ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/2 "2007-01-15T01:53:53Z")
[I don’t know jack about the Free Republic…](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1767142/posts) > [@article](#): > > But when pressed by Pelley, Bush concedes that conditions in Iraq are much worse now. > [@](#): > > “We liberated that country from a tyrant. I think the Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude and I believe most Iraqi’s express that.” Heh. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/3 "2007-01-15T02:43:51Z")
Well, yeah, they should. I mean, look at all those dead Iraqis who might otherwise have been tortured by Saddam and his henchmen. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/4 "2007-01-15T02:48:56Z")
Unfortunately, America currently has no really terrible leader that the Iraqis could get rid of to repay their debt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/5 "2007-01-15T04:03:02Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Unfortunately, America currently has no really terrible leader that the Iraqis could get rid of to repay their debt. [/QUOTE] Post of the Day! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/6 "2007-01-15T04:14:26Z")
FWIW, in the recent JFK 50 I ran several miles with a recently returned veteran who told me that most Iraqis were greatful and appreciative. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/7 "2007-01-15T04:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] FWIW, in the recent JFK 50 I ran several miles with a recently returned veteran who told me that most Iraqis were greatful and appreciative. [/QUOTE] Of course. Problem is that once the soldiers are out of sight the polls tell us a different thing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/8 "2007-01-15T04:57:00Z")
Well, I think they do. The Kurds are hwaaaay better off. As for the rest of the nation- right now, not so much. But they do have freedom and the _potential_ of a peaceful democratic nation. They had no hope at all before. Not to mention nerve gas attacks, genocide, institutionalized _real_ torture, and other horrors. Not that we had any business invading Iraq. But many- including myself- think that giving up a little security for a lot of freedom is worth it. If I was an Iraqi, I’d want freedom despite the slightly higher risk. Sorry, I know that most of us here think that the Iraq invasion is **Eviiiiil** , and I agree it was the wrong thing to do, and it cost America far too much, but in the long run, I think it will be better for the Iraqi people. Already the Kurds are way better off. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/9 "2007-01-15T05:02:13Z")
I have a very bad feeling that a generation of young Iraqis may dedicate themselves to “repaying” us. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/10 "2007-01-15T05:14:50Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] FWIW, in the recent JFK 50 I ran several miles with a recently returned veteran who told me that most Iraqis were greatful and appreciative. [/QUOTE] What else do you think Iraqis are going to say to the guys with the guns? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/11 "2007-01-15T05:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What else do you think Iraqis are going to say to the guys with the guns? [/QUOTE] Well, one of the ones that wasn’t happy tried to blow him up with a bomb and he spent 6 months having bits of ditch and suicide bomber picked out of his flesh, so I figure that when he said most were glad he was there he knew what he has talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/12 "2007-01-15T05:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Well, one of the ones that wasn’t happy tried to blow him up with a bomb and he spent 6 months having bits of ditch and suicide bomber picked out of his flesh, so I figure that when he said most were glad he was there he knew what he has talking about. [/QUOTE] There’s something a little off about this kind of logic (aside from the special pleading). It does not follow that any Iraqi who is unhappy about the American invasion and occupation of Iraq would automatically be an insurgent or automatically be incapable of shining on the guys with the guns or for that matter be incapable of being a secret insurgent who is just ingratiating himself to US soldiers in the daylight. I’m sure you must also realize that your sample of one can be easily matched by returning soldiers who say the Iraqis hate us and want us out of there. Actual scientific polls of Iraqi opinion also reflect that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/13 "2007-01-15T05:36:27Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] FWIW, in the recent JFK 50 I ran several miles with a recently returned veteran who told me that most Iraqis were greatful and appreciative. [/QUOTE] Go peddle yourself-serving ( **Scylla** , The Great White Hunter, indefatigable runner, intellectual, genius, überhubby/dad, laudatory bullshit back in Freeper land, would you? 'cause its gotten quite tiring here a long time ago. [Most Iraqis Favor Immediate U.S. Pullout, Polls Show](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html) > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD, Sept. 26 – A strong majority of Iraqis want U.S.-led military forces to immediately withdraw from the country, saying their swift departure would make Iraq more secure and decrease sectarian violence, according to new polls by the State Department and independent researchers. > > In Baghdad, for example, nearly three-quarters of residents polled said they would feel safer if U.S. and other foreign forces left Iraq, with 65 percent of those asked favoring an immediate pullout, according to State Department polling results obtained by The Washington Post. OTOH, props for running with a member of a minority group. Very X-tian of you. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/14 "2007-01-15T05:37:58Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] FWIW, in the recent JFK 50 I ran several miles with a recently returned veteran who told me that most Iraqis were greatful and appreciative. [/QUOTE] I don’t doubt that they are. Really. Absolutely no bullshit on my part. I’m sure that 99.9% of them are glad old Saddie had his neck stretched. I’m also willing to bet that they all wish we _hadn’t_ botched the occupation so horribly. _That_, however, is the crux of the matter. The goodwill we’ve engendered amongst the Iraqis for getting rid of the sicko in charge has got to be outweighed by the fact that we can’t figure out what to do next. If we could have gotten the country stable within a few months of toppling Saddam, and then packed up and left once a government was elected, Iraqis no doubt would be our best friends in the region. Unfortuantely, that’s not how things happened. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/15 "2007-01-15T06:28:31Z")
So, OK, you met this guy and he told you “X”. And you bring “X” to us as some form of evidence that we are, somehow, bound to respect. So you got one Anecdotal Evidence Point? So I suppose for each instance we might find of someone, also a veteran of the conflict, saying precisly the opposite, we then get one Anecdotal Evidence Point? Seems kinda stupid, you don’t mind my saying so. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/16 "2007-01-15T06:32:52Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] So, OK, you met this guy and he told you “X”. And you bring “X” to us as some form of evidence that we are, somehow, bound to respect. So you got one Anecdotal Evidence Point? [/quote] Funny thing is, if the guy had told **Scylla** the opposite, he’d either ignore the point, or post a rant about how rabid anti-war leftists were posing as Iraqi war veterans. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/17 "2007-01-15T06:44:35Z")
Gotta admit, guys in great fucking shape! Most guys, on a run like that, save their breath for breathing, you know? Guy was probably showing off, indulging in autobiography just to rub it in, how much reserve breath he’s got. I mean, he must have worked up to it, you don’t just run along with someone and then blurt that out, first thing you say, do you? “Hey, guy, how ya doin’? You know, I just got back from Iraq, where everybody really loves us and are grateful as all get out, but that was before I got wounded and spent six months in hospital, much better now, thanks. Well, gotta go, excuse my dust, grampa…” Over time, I am struck by how many political insights come to **Scylla** when he is engaged in demonstrations of his athletic prowess. I mean, what are the odds? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/18 "2007-01-15T07:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] But they do have freedom and the _potential_ of a peaceful democratic nation. [/quote] Go tell an Iraqi woman who doesn’t dare go to school or leave home without a veil how much more free she is. [QUOTE=DrDeth] They had no hope at all before. Not to mention nerve gas attacks, genocide, institutionalized _real_ torture, and other horrors. [/quote] As opposed to general anarchy, random slaughter, bombs from Iraqis and Americans, rape, torture, napalm, cluster bombs, white phosphorus and disappearances ? They were better off under Saddam; not because Saddam was a good man or leader, but because we are even worse than he was. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/19 "2007-01-15T08:43:32Z")
I’ve been in Iraq since the summer of 2003. I don’t know a single Iraqi outside of the Kurdish north who thinks things are better now, or who thinks things will get better. Every Iraqi I know, and I mean EVERY single one of them, is trying to figure out how to get out of the country. I also know a boatload of Iraqis who were killed accidently by US forces, so I can’t ask them if they are grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013/20 "2007-01-15T08:52:21Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Well, one of the ones that wasn’t happy tried to blow him up with a bomb and he spent 6 months having bits of ditch and suicide bomber picked out of his flesh, so I figure that when he said most were glad he was there he knew what he has talking about. [/QUOTE] Being blown up gives you better judgment as to when you’re being lied to? I’m not getting it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-says-the-iraqis-owe-us-a-debt-of-gratitude/388013.md?page=2)