# Bush screws up again **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751 "2001-01-25T18:35:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2001, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/61 "2001-01-26T23:20:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Okay…so a while ago I asked Bush supporters to verify the position that Dubie is actually not an unbright lad. Milo responded with an abbreviated curriculum vitae which was pretty soundly slapped down. \*\* It was? Let’s see. Bush got a bachelor’s from Yale and a master’s from Harvard business. _Yeah, but that’s only because his family has money and prestige_! (Unlike all those other students whose Welfare moms send them to Yale and Harvard business, I guess.) Bush was CEO of a major oil and gas business. _Yeah, but he didn’t do a very good job._ Bush was Governor of one of our biggest, most diverse states. _Yeah, but he didn’t have so much power under the Texas Constitution._ He’s a pilot. _Yeah, but his score, although qualifying him to be a pilot, wasn’t very high._ Wow. What a smack-down. :rolleyes: You’re right. His business experience is no better than a jizz-mopper’s at the local XXX house. His political accomplishments are no greater than the Village President of Felch, Michigan. I know the air of moral and intellectual superiority your side likes to take, and your propensity for high-five parties when you agree with one another, can be sometimes deluding. But you libs really ought to take a moment to realize how ridiculously pompous and partisan you sound. And the next time you want to paint me with that brush, instead write ‘flaming hypocrite’ backwards on your forehead, and stand in front of a mirror. ---
**Author:** ![City\_Gent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a87d85/32.png) [@City\_Gent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/City_Gent)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/62 "2001-01-27T01:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shelbo \* > \*\*Not that anyone cares, but I thought I’d throw some facts into this debate. > Based on his SAT scores of 1206, GW’s IQ is probably in the 125 to 130 range. Which, as all of you Mensa members are no doubt aware, is well above average. > \*\* Ever since I’ve known about the SAT (~15 years), they’ve only reported scores in increments of 10 points. The score quoted above is 1206, so either (1) They formerly reported scores in one-point increments but changed to ten-point increments sometime between 1964 and 1985 for some reason or (2) Bush’s claimed 1206 is phony. (I’m guessing he took the SAT when he was 17, in 1963). ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/63 "2001-01-27T01:54:42Z")
Screwtape: Your right. I was sputtering and being uncivil. ::grits teeth:: sorry. Ahem: **Refutation of Assertion** -The assertion is presented with neither evidence, nor a train of logic to suggest that it should be true. -There is no intrinsic reason to the assertion to suggest verity. -Therefore, it is an unfounded assertion. -The scope of useful information presented within an unfounded assertion is necessarily confined to the person who makes it. -That the unfounded nature of the assertion is consistent with your stated prejudices and preferences, means that we can safely discount it as false. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/64 "2001-01-27T02:36:45Z")
\*Originally posted by Milossarian \* I swear, Milo, you would have made one hell of a matador! Not so much missing the point as evading it with excruciating care, rather like how porcupines get it on. > [@](#): > > Let’s see. Bush got a bachelor’s from Yale and a master’s from Harvard business. > _Yeah, but that’s only because his family has money and prestige_! (Unlike all those other students whose Welfare moms send them to Yale and Harvard business, I guess.) If his family didn’t have m. and p., he would never have **gone** to Yalevard in the first place! The reference to Welfare moms is ineffable, almost sublime. I cannot contest it. I cannot understand it. Its like trying to box up a smoke ring and ship it UPS. > [@](#): > > Bush was CEO of a major oil and gas business. > _Yeah, but he didn’t do a very good job._ Not a “very good job”. Remember General Jubilation T. Cornpone, from Li’l Avner? General of _Cornpone’s Defeat_ and _Cornpone’s Rout_ and _Cornpone’s Utter Humiliation_ Something like that. > [@](#): > > Bush was Governor of one of our biggest, most diverse states. > _Yeah, but he didn’t have so much power under the Texas Constitution._ The Texas Constitution defines a government that utterly loathes government. The Governor has the power to make solemn pronouncements, and declare “Jesus Day”. He does not have the power to make “Jesus Day” a paid holiday. You get the idea. As far as an experience in wielding power, suggesting an understanding of power and its moral obligations, it ranks quite a bit above Hall Monitor. [/quote] He’s a pilot. _Yeah, but his score, although qualifying him to be a pilot, wasn’t very high._ [/quote] Wasn’t very high! Goddam, Milo, it barely got him above house plant! It was the absolute mimimum! Nonetheless, he still beat out a whole bunch of other guys who shared his disinterest in rice paddies, and the changing of hearts and minds. You don’t doubt why. Neither do I. > [@](#): > > You’re right. His business experience is no better than a jizz-mopper’s at the local XXX house. They **mop** it! Hard to believe. But, no, again, I must defer to experience that clearly exceed mine own. > [@](#): > > His political accomplishments are no greater than the Village President of Felch, Michigan. As all aware SDMB Post Toasties are by now aware, there is no such place as Felch, MI. I am appalled, sir, that your would cast such aspersions on God-fearing, hard-working, cattle-humping… > [@](#): > > I know the air of moral and intellectual superiority your side likes to take, and your propensity for high-five parties… etc. Well, its not exactly candy from a baby. It’s candy from a baby that keeps kicking you in the shin. ---
**Author:** ![FunkDaddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc79bd/32.png) [@FunkDaddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkDaddy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/65 "2001-01-27T02:48:32Z")
\ Might I offer an ‘outside’ opinion in my first GD post? I must admit, I’m not a follower of politics. I was one of the snarky-assed Canadian folks who looked at the American election and sniggered up my sleeve when I was up until 2:30am watching returns slide back and forth, nobody being declared a winner. I further sniggered when we elected a leader a few days/weeks later and knew 3 hours after the first poll closed who our new leader would be. However, I think that everyone’s taking this ribbing of their fave leader a little personally. Hell, as a Canadian, my only real criteria for the US president being cool is his being funny (Clinton was a JACKPOT, and both candidates this time were equally comical in my eyes). Our current leader, Cretien, has had some pretty good moments, too. Choking a protestor who got too close… taking a pie in the face with aplomb… pointing out that protestors who got maced ‘were lucky they weren’t clubbed’ - This guy’s hilarious! Just what we need… Christ, everyone needs to lighten up some. 😉 I think my rather meandering point is that Democrats who are worried that you’ll all be hurried out of the country by night, replaced by gun-toting militiamen who can’t spell and have smiles with more holes than nice lingerie are catasrophizing (sp?). Republicans who are getting all defensive because their great leader’s public image includes some nifty words are just being uptight… relax! The Democrats won’t force you to give up business suits for short-shorts and tank tops. They won’t make you give up your paycheque to someone who doesn’t feel like working. You’re being paranoid. I think Dubya’s going to be a funny guy to have in charge. Sit back and enjoy the ride… I doubt he’ll make it past one term. What’s 4 years? Besides… if you hate it that much, Canada’s borders are undefended. Come visit, and stay a while. Hey, I’m just trying to make the next 4 years more bearable for everyone involved. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/66 "2001-01-27T03:50:01Z")
elucination: > [@](#): > > \*\*As all aware SDMB Post Toasties are by now aware, there is no such place as Felch, MI. I am appalled, sir, that your would cast such aspersions on God-fearing, hard-working, cattle-humping… \*\* You, sir, are going to debate _that_ point with a life-long Michigan resident? Buy a Michigan map. There most certainly is a Felch. Right about the middle of Dickinson County, which is just left of the middle of the Upper Peninsula. And the fact that you dismiss the accomplishments of someone who was able to achieve a lofty position like governor of Texas (or president of the United States, for that matter) says more about you than it does them. For all the disagreements I may have with Al Gore and his political positions, I would never presume to say his time in the House, Senate or vice presidency was irrelevant or not worthy of respect. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/67 "2001-01-27T18:43:37Z")
I am stunned. I reel, I stagger. Have I had a stroke, someone slipped me a Woodstockian “brown barrell”? Nothing so mundane! **Milo is right!** There is indeed such a place as Felch, and it is located precisely where one might suspect. Thankfully, you return straightaway to normal, suggesting that if you will not dis Gore’s experience in the House, Senate, etc., then I am required to respect Georgie Tirebiter’s experience as Gov. As I have made tiresomely clear, no such parallel exists. Comparing the experience with power between Gov of Texas and the Algore’s resume is laughable. It like comparing Chief of Police with a crossing guard. Brimming barrells of balderdash, sir! ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/68 "2001-01-27T20:46:39Z")
Yes no such parallel exists. Bush is one of the few who managed to stay as Gov. for more than a single term. Gore, well hes a hard worker. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2001, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/69 "2001-01-27T23:20:22Z")
_Originally posted by UncleBeer_ > [@](#): > > Hmm. This is the definition of anecdote I’ve been laboring under. > > an·ec·dote noun > A short account of an interesting or humorous incident. > > Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company UncleBeer, I have a suspicion about you, and that suspicion is that you’re too smart not to know that conflating the definition of “anecdote”, with what is clearly meant by the word “anecdotal” is invalid. [Disingenuousness pointer-outer hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/70 "2001-01-28T02:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodean \* > Yes no such parallel exists. Bush is one of the few who managed to stay as Gov. for more than a single term. Gore, well hes a hard worker. What a ridiculous observation. Do you have some actual, y’know, _statistics_ to back up your claim that Bush in one of the few multi-term governors? And what do you mean by “few,” anyway? Even in his own state, Ann Richards immediately preceded him with more than one term. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/71 "2001-01-28T06:46:39Z")
Quick Yahoo! searches on Ann Richards and Dubya reveal the following facts: 1. Ann Richards was elected Governor of Texas in 1990. 2. GWBush was elected Governor of Texas in 1994 ergo, Richards served only one term. Q.E.D. Ya know, when people taking the position I disagree with make gaffes that could be easily avoided, I think it’s cool. When people who take the position I agree with do so, it’s just embarrassing. Now,'fess up, then get back in there and fight the good fight. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/72 "2001-01-28T06:52:44Z")
I suspect that by “few,” he means "few multi-term _Texas_ Governors. 'Course from what I’ve heard about the intrinsic importance of the office, perhaps we should question the personal initiative of anyone who’d _want_ the job more than once. And, no, I do not exclude Mrs. Richards from scrutiny under this proposal. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/73 "2001-01-28T07:01:59Z")
Do forgive me. _ **GADARENE** _ ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/74 "2001-01-28T07:10:07Z")
D’oh… Shows what I get for making statements from memory without actually **checkin’** the facts. My bad. Sorry, **Asmodean** …and **kaylasdad** , thanks for the pick-up. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/75 "2001-01-28T07:20:04Z")
It’s on the house, dude. ---
**Author:** ![LCP2972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@LCP2972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LCP2972)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/76 "2001-01-28T11:01:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > > > > B.A. Yale University 1968 > > M.B.A. Harvard Business School, 1975 > > Denied admission to Texas University Law School > “There is surely a place for young George in the world, but I don’t think TU Law School is it.” Dean, TU Law > > > [@](#): > > > > Founder and CEO of an oil and gas company > > Well, yes. But why be stingy? Founded _several_ oil and gas exploration companies. Went broke, bailed out by other Texas oilmen, further enhancing thier reputation for gentle and nurturing business practices. Uh-huh. > > > [@](#): > > > > General managing partner of a professional baseball team > > Traded Sammy Sousa. > > > [@](#): > > > > Governor of one of our countries largest, most diverse states. > > Dear God, Milo! Have you ever **been** to Texas! Born and raised there, myself. (Little town called Waco…you never heard of it, nothing ever happens there) Yeah, its diverse as all get out _on the bottom_. On the top, however, its all the same, biggest bunch of ignorant peckerwoods as you ever saw in your life. > > “Two things no civilized person should ever witness: what actually goes in to sausage, and how a Texas politician earns his daily bread.” Sinclair Lewis. > > Lifelong enemy of bullshit, veteran of the Acid Wars, comfort to the afflicted, affliction to the comfortable. > > \*\* I’m here with you,just 50-60 miles south, and damn, do you have it pegged. Don’t get me wrong, I love it here, but I am a white heterosexual male, just a hair more tolerant than most of the rednecks. **disclaimer** Austin is better than most of Texas, tolerance-wise…but that’s not saying a whole hell of a lot. I didn’t vote for Jr., and will vote against him again next go round. In my estimation he is 99% hot air and “good” intentions. No different from the rest of the pols, but he insists on putting on a face of, “more moral than the other guy”. Personally I don’t believe it for a second. I’ll give it another couple months before I go completely off about it though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2001, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/77 "2001-01-28T18:17:37Z")
LCP, in the interests of full disclosure… I am a _recovering_ Texan, I do not currently reside there, though born and raised in Waco. I have been there on a number of occasions, and fondly recall a week spent in Austin honky-tonks as the most fun I have ever had, period. I was oftime tempted to move back. Until I picked up a newspaper. The curative effect of information on nostalgia. 'Bout the only thing I really miss is a good Aggie joke. Got any? Oh, and barbecue. Purchased in a disreputable shack, with a busted screen door advertising Mrs. Baird’s bread, which we are assured is “_good_ bread”, served with a Shiner’s and a fat doob of home-grow. People who don’t talk funny. The most gorgeous women in the USA. Bar none, no contest. Way, way off the thread. Time to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2001, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/78 "2001-01-29T22:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \***Originally posted by Scylla \* > That the unfounded nature of the assertion is consistent with your stated prejudices and preferences, means that we can safely discount it as false.** Of course you can. I used the word “assertion” carefully. I don’t _know_ the state of GW’s intellect, I just wanted to suggest, with a few reasons for my doing so, that he _may_ be a couple tacos short of a combo-plate. Even if I did know his IQ, remember that the IQ index has been largely discounted by folks who know a whole lot more about it than I do. This is the same system that certified your humble and obedient as a genius, so make of it what you will. Well done on the apology, by the way. I know it was difficult. I still _suspect_, without any evidence solid enough to get a conviction, that Dubie is essentially the hood ornament of a puppet government, and that Cheney, Powell, and men of similar ability are leading him, rather than the reverse. As for my “assertion” that GW isn’t bright enough to pour, uh, water out of a boot with instructions on the heel, [the evidence mounts.](http://www.msnbc.com/news/517502.asp?bt=prgy#BODY) ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/79 "2001-01-29T22:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \***Originally posted by Scylla \* > That the unfounded nature of the assertion is consistent with your stated prejudices and preferences, means that we can safely discount it as false.** Of course you can. I used the word “assertion” carefully. I don’t _know_ the state of GW’s intellect, I just wanted to suggest, with a few reasons for my doing so, that he _may_ be a couple tacos short of a combo-plate. Even if I did know his IQ, remember that the IQ index has been largely discounted by folks who know a whole lot more about it than I do. This is the same system that certified your humble and obedient as a genius, so make of it what you will. Well done on the apology, by the way. I know it was difficult. I still _suspect_, without any evidence solid enough to get a conviction, that Dubie is essentially the hood ornament of a puppet government, and that Cheney, Powell, and men of similar ability are leading him, rather than the reverse. As for my “assertion” that GW isn’t bright enough to pour, uh, water out of a boot with instructions on the heel, [the evidence mounts.](http://www.msnbc.com/news/517502.asp?bt=prgy#BODY) ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2001, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751/80 "2001-01-29T22:40:15Z")
…the server here is so slow, that it times out after it posts. Sorry, all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-screws-up-again/51751.md?page=3)