# Bush showing himself to be more than the Christian "cheerleader" he is taken for **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391 "2001-11-20T14:41:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/41 "2001-11-22T05:04:00Z")
\*\*bordelond wrote: I’ve seen Bush criticized on this board about not respecting or reaching out to other faiths. Well, he’s coming around.\*\* Well, I’ll believe that when he makes gestures to other faiths, especially one where it’s not politically expedient to do so. How about a feast at the White House during Beltane? (April 30th). **The debate – do such gestures affect Bush’s standing among American Muslims? Among Muslims worldwide?** Well, it’s a nice gesture, but I think the political expediency of the gesture is transparent. He’s being nice to the Muslims to keep the Alliance together during the war in Afghanistan. Would he being doing this if the events of Sept. 11th never happened? \*\*JerseyDiamond wrote: A true Christian does not add to the Bible and he does not take away from the Bible. If a person follows the Bible and doesnt change it to suit their needs, then that is the right denomination.\*\* Sorry for the continued hi-jack, but I have to ask; so you keep **ALL** of the 600 odd rules from the Old Testament? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/42 "2001-11-22T05:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\* > 100 yrs? Have you read the Old Testament? The Jews’ own history is full of stories of wars with Ishmael’s descendants. The only reason there wasn’t that much conflict in the NT is that the Romans wouldn’t have put up with it._\* Well, I have, and the bible mentions two wars against the Arabs. One was a raid by Arabs on Jerusalem where they killed the sons of Jehoram, King of Judah. The other was a successful attack on the Arab settlement of Gur Baal by King Uzziah. To contrast, Moab conquered Israel in the time of the Judges, Saul attacked Moab, David attacked Moab, Joram, King of Israel attacked Moab, Moabites raided Israel during the reign of Jehoash, and during the reign of Jehoiakim. According to the bible, Israel seems to have had better relationships with the Arabs than it did with the Moabites, the Edomites, the Phillistines, and a whole number of rival nations and tribes. Historically, the relationship between Arab and Jew has been reasonably good. The Nabatean Arabs sent trading caravans to Jerusalem, King Herod the Great was the son of an Arab princess, some Arab tribes converted to Judaism, and, after Arabs had conquered much of the Eastern Mediterannean, Jewish communities survived and even flourished in lands under Arab rule. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/43 "2001-11-22T06:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\* > Sorry for the continued hi-jack, but I have to ask; so you keep **ALL** of the 600 odd rules from the Old Testament? \*\* \ I know the answer I know the answer! Pick me! Pick me! \ When Jesus Chris died for our sins, he changed the whole rules. According to the Old Testament, the only way to God was through following all the Rules. But Jesus’ sacrifice rendered all those rules meaningless, since the New and Improved way to Him was through Faith and Grace. Doesn’t matter whatcha do, only matters whatcha believe. Except for the Ten Commandments, of course. What’s my grade? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/44 "2001-11-22T16:50:13Z")
\*\*Stoid wrote: When Jesus Chris died for our sins, he changed the whole rules. According to the Old Testament, the only way to God was through following all the Rules. But Jesus’ sacrifice rendered all those rules meaningless, since the New and Improved way to Him was through Faith and Grace. Doesn’t matter whatcha do, only matters whatcha believe.\*\* Very good, **Stoid** , but **Jersey Diamond’s** quote said **THE BIBLE** , rather than, specifically, the New Testament. So, which is it? Certainly you get an **A** for effort! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/45 "2001-11-22T18:38:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > > * * * > > Very good, **Stoid** , but **Jersey Diamond’s** quote said **THE BIBLE** , rather than, specifically, the New Testament. So, which is it? > > Certainly you get an **A** for effort! \*\* Yay! As for the assignment, the point is that where there is conflict, the New supercedes the Old. Pretty conveeeeeenient. stoid ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/46 "2001-11-22T18:40:16Z")
I’d like to apologize for all this bolding. I don’t know what’s come over me. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/47 "2001-11-22T19:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\* > Very good, **Stoid** , but **Jersey Diamond’s** quote said **THE BIBLE** , rather than, specifically, the New Testament. So, which is it? > > Certainly you get an **A** for effort! \*\* It’s the **whole Bible!** The ceremonial laws were specifically for the Jews, the **moral** laws were for **everyone.** I should have been more specific. I don’t know what I was thinking. Any who, I have had a long morning baking and now I must leave to go to my mom and dads. _ **Have a great thanksgiving everyone.** _ ``` JD ``` ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2001, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/48 "2001-11-24T04:34:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > > \*\*For your ludicrous and unsubstantiated claim about the “core” of religions and how one “shows respect” to them. \*\* > > I don’t recall making any claims in this thread. (Prior to this post, of course.) \*\* Umm… try this? > [@](#): > > Aren’t gestures the core of most religions? And aren’t gestures therefore the most appropiate way to show respect for other religions? So perhaps it’s not as much a claim as an implication, but nevertheless… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2001, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/49 "2001-11-24T15:29:58Z")
**Jersey Diamond** said: > [@](#): > > It’s the whole Bible! The ceremonial laws were specifically for the Jews, the moral laws were for everyone. A plausible _interpretation_, but where specifically does it say that? It sounds like “adding to the Bible” to draw that distinction, IMHO. I can grant that a reasonable explanation of Peter’s vision in Acts is that the dietary laws have been superseded, though strict reading of the text would imply this only for Peter; to extend it to other Christians requires extrapolation from it. And, given this take on the applicability of God’s moral law to Christians, how does one read Paul’s repeated assertion that “we are free from the Law”? These are not intended as put-down-Jersey questions, dear, but an effort to sincerely understand your stance on the issues. I’ve come to respect you as sincere in your belief and seriously trying to represent it publicly, and I’m sure others with less dedication to Scripture than I are seeing these or similar glaring apparent contradictions, so I feel it appropriate to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/50 "2001-11-25T22:03:06Z")
\*\*Polycarp wrote: These are not intended as put-down-Jersey questions, dear, but an effort to sincerely understand your stance on the issues. I’ve come to respect you as sincere in your belief and seriously trying to represent it publicly, and I’m sure others with less dedication to Scripture than I are seeing these or similar glaring apparent contradictions, so I feel it appropriate to ask.\*\* I second this. My question wasn’t meant to be rude or sarcastic (tho I can see how it may have come off that way) but I am interested in knowing how you explain the apparent contradition. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391/51 "2001-11-26T06:30:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by g8rguy \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Aren’t gestures the core of most religions? And aren’t gestures therefore the most appropiate way to show respect for other religions? > > So perhaps it’s not as much a claim as an implication, but nevertheless… \*\* Could you finish that sentence? Did you mean to say: “nevertheless, you should provide a cite for your beliefs, even though you didn’t actually state them, and you asked whether anyone disagrees with them (thereby **also** implying that you were open to disagreement and not simply declaring it to be true)”? Because that’s what I hear maeglin saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-showing-himself-to-be-more-than-the-christian-cheerleader-he-is-taken-for/94391.md?page=2)