# Bush signs "finding" authorizing wider covert offensive v. Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140 "2008-05-05T16:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/1 "2008-05-05T16:23:23Z")
The only source I’ve found for this so far is Alexander Cockburn at [Counterpunch,](http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew05022008.html) but that’s more than good enough for a Pitting: > [@](#): > > Six weeks ago, President Bush signed a secret finding authorizing a covert offensive against the Iranian regime that, according to those familiar with its contents, “unprecedented in its scope.” > > Bush’s secret directive covers actions across a huge geographic area – from Lebanon to Afghanistan – but is also far more sweeping in the type of actions permitted under its guidelines – up to and including the assassination of targeted officials. This widened scope clears the way, for example, for full support for the military arm of Mujahedin-e Khalq, the cultish Iranian opposition group, despite its enduring position on the State Department’s list of terrorist groups. > > Similarly, covert funds can now flow without restriction to Jundullah, or “army of god,” the militant Sunni group in Iranian Baluchistan – just across the Afghan border – whose leader was featured not long ago on Dan Rather Reports cutting his brother in law’s throat. > > Other elements that will benefit from U.S. largesse and advice include Iranian Kurdish nationalists, as well the Ahwazi arabs of south west Iran. Further afield, operations against Iran’s Hezbollah allies in Lebanon will be stepped up, along with efforts to destabilize the Syrian regime. > > \ > > Though Petraeus is not due to take formal command at Centcom until late summer, there are abundant signs that something may happen before then. A Marine amphibious force, originally due to leave San Diego for the Persian Gulf in mid June, has had its sailing date abruptly moved up to May 4. A scheduled meeting in Europe between French diplomats acting as intermediaries for the U.S. and Iranian representatives has been abruptly cancelled in the last two weeks. Petraeus is said to be at work on a master briefing for congress to demonstrate conclusively that the Iranians are the source of our current troubles in Iraq, thanks to their support for the Shia militia currently under attack by U.S. forces in Baghdad. > > Interestingly, despite the bellicose complaints, Petraeus has made little effort to seal the Iran-Iraq border, and in any case two thirds of U.S. casualties still come from Sunni insurgents. “The Shia account for less than one third,” a recently returned member of the command staff in Baghdad familiar with the relevant intelligence told me, “but if you want a war you have to sell it.” :dubious: **GIVE IT UP, W.** Remember that “political capital” you resolved to “spend” after the 2004 election? Well, you’ve gone and overdrawn the account. You are now [more unpopular than Nixon was when he resigned.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/01/poll-bush-most-unpopular-in-modern-history/) You **cannot** sell the American people yet another war. Just accept your “legacy” as it is and stop trying to make things even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/2 "2008-05-05T16:54:55Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] :dubious: **GIVE IT UP, W.** Remember that “political capital” you resolved to “spend” after the 2004 election? Well, you’ve gone and overdrawn the account. You are now [more unpopular than Nixon was when he resigned.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/01/poll-bush-most-unpopular-in-modern-history/) You **cannot** sell the American people yet another war. Just accept your “legacy” as it is and stop trying to make things even worse. [/QUOTE] I stopped being surprised about this stuff when we invaded Iraq. Honestly, I thought _that_ was a joke - “no sane government would start a second war when it already had one unfinished one on its hands,” I said to myself. Said it to you lot too, [in fact.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3618660&postcount=245) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/3 "2008-05-05T17:39:19Z")
[ABC News has the same story.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/bush_authorizes.html) (And check out the comments calling ABC traitors for running it. :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/4 "2008-05-05T17:51:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [ABC News has the same story.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/bush_authorizes.html) [/QUOTE] No, it’s not the same story. Note the reference to “nonlethal” in the ABC story, and the comments that this means Bush is less likely to take overt military action against Iran, contrary to the conclusions you drew from the first story. > [@](#): > > (And check out the comments calling ABC traitors for running it. :rolleyes: ) Yeah, kinda like the idiots around here who you are constantly chastising for calling Libby or Cheney treasonous. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/5 "2008-05-05T17:52:54Z")
What, am I the only one who assumed that this was already going on? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/6 "2008-05-05T17:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] What, am I the only one who assumed that this was already going on? -Joe [/QUOTE] Of course it’s been going on, but this widens the scope. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/7 "2008-05-05T17:57:24Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Of course it’s been going on, but this widens the scope. [/QUOTE] If a known shitbag is willing to admit to stealing a dollar, it’s a pretty safe bet that he’s actually managed to lift a five spot. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/8 "2008-05-05T18:14:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [ABC News has the same story.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/bush_authorizes.html) (And check out the comments calling ABC traitors for running it. :rolleyes: ) [/QUOTE] Those are pretty hilarious. If the Iranians didn’t already know about this… well, what could you possibly have to fear from people who didn’t notice we were destabilizing their government and currency markets until we told them about it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/9 "2008-05-05T18:19:26Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [ABC News has the same story.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/bush_authorizes.html) (And check out the comments calling ABC traitors for running it. :rolleyes: ) [/QUOTE] This is a complete outrage and I will not stand for it! How could this be done to the unsuspecting American people!?!?! (Note: The link freezes up my Firefox every time I click on it. I’m more worked up about that than the topic of discussion. This aggression will not stand, man!) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/10 "2008-05-05T18:23:54Z")
I could be wrong, but do I detect a faint note of sarcasm? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/11 "2008-05-05T18:31:40Z")
I’m just pissed that ABC News has apparently signed a classified finding for covert action against my computer. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/12 "2008-05-05T18:49:46Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] (Note: The link freezes up my Firefox every time I click on it. I’m more worked up about that than the topic of discussion. This aggression will not stand, man!) [/QUOTE] Yes, it screwed mine up as well. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/13 "2008-05-05T19:37:52Z")
So does this authorization of “targeted assassination” mean that Shrub has revoked Executive Order 11905? Or was that EO already toast and I hadn’t heard about it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/14 "2008-05-05T19:44:28Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] So does this authorization of “targeted assassination” mean that Shrub has revoked Executive Order 11905? Or was that EO already toast and I hadn’t heard about it? [/QUOTE] No, it means that **BG** ’s first link was factually incorrect regarding that assertion in the first place. If you can link to the ABC news story, this particular order explicitly forbids taking lethal actions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/15 "2008-05-05T20:20:07Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, it means that **BG** ’s first link was factually incorrect regarding that assertion in the first place. If you can link to the ABC news story, this particular order explicitly forbids taking lethal actions. [/QUOTE] Not exactly: > [@](#): > > The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell the Blotter on [ABCNews.com](http://ABCNews.com). > > The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, say President Bush has signed a “nonlethal presidential finding” that puts into motion a CIA plan that reportedly includes a coordinated campaign of propaganda, disinformation and manipulation of Iran’s currency and international financial transactions. But words are slippery in Washington and especially in the intelligence community, and the sources’ calling this a “nonlethal presidential finding” does not actually mean the sources’ understanding is that assassination is right out. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/16 "2008-05-05T20:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, it means that **BG** ’s first link was factually incorrect regarding that assertion in the first place. If you can link to the ABC news story, this particular order explicitly forbids taking lethal actions. [/QUOTE] Not exactly: > [@](#): > > The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell the Blotter on [ABCNews.com](http://ABCNews.com). > > The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, say President Bush has signed a “nonlethal presidential finding” that puts into motion a CIA plan that reportedly includes a coordinated campaign of propaganda, disinformation and manipulation of Iran’s currency and international financial transactions. But words are slippery in Washington and especially in the intelligence community, and the sources’ calling this a “nonlethal presidential finding” does not actually mean the sources’ understanding is that assassination is right out. The story does say, a bit further down: > [@](#): > > The “nonlethal” aspect of the presidential finding means CIA officers may not use deadly force in carrying out the secret operations against Iran. Which is less ambiguous but no more convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/17 "2008-05-05T20:25:37Z")
What exactly would we call it if Iran engaged in “A coordinated campaign of propaganda, disinformation and manipulation of United States currency and international financial transactions.” What makes it OK if the US does this to Iran? Because at least they are not killing anyone? My guess is that the US does this for the same reason a dog licks itself… because it can. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/18 "2008-05-05T20:28:55Z")
More like “Why does someone jab a caged bear with sharp sticks? Answer: to bring the bear to a more sensible negotiationg position, in order to foster better relations with the bear.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/19 "2008-05-05T20:34:27Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] More like “Why does someone jab a caged bear with sharp sticks? Answer: to bring the bear to a more sensible negotiationg position, in order to foster better relations with the bear.” [/QUOTE] Okay… good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/20 "2008-05-05T20:36:35Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Why does someone jab a caged bear with sharp sticks? [/QUOTE] Because a free bear will eat you if you jab it with sharp sticks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140.md?page=2)