# Bush signs "finding" authorizing wider covert offensive v. Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140 "2008-05-05T16:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/61 "2008-05-06T20:34:32Z")
Well, that’s not quite the same since\*\* RA\*\* was referring to international agreements rather than domestic ones. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/62 "2008-05-06T20:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Not _this_ president: [/QUOTE] But, that’s about executive orders. Executive orders are unilaterally issued by the POTUS. **Of course** the POTUS is free to change those, whether his own or a predecessor’s (whether he gets to keep the change secret is another question). An agreement with a foreign state would be a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/63 "2008-05-06T21:29:22Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > I don’t know about you but that sounds like it was written with tongue pretty firmly in cheek. [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] No. (Nor is it entirely clear at this point that he was actually doing so, see **Really Not All That Bright’s** post above.) [/quote] Right. Unsourced reporting by leftist reporters on top secret matters not reported by any other media should be taken at face value; but a quote (which, so far as I can tell, was put into context by the Tom Wolfe piece) that the same journalist made racist comments in an apparently pro-Soviet article ought to be regarded as gonzo journalism until further notice. > [@](#): > > And how could they possibly have viewed Afghanistan as a threat to the USSR? Some saw the Iranian revolution as being exported to Afghanistan because of the PDPA-Khalq’s problems with Pashtuns. Others thought that President Amin was meeting with CIA agents. I recall that some thought that Afghanistan was going to fold into a Chinese orbit and become an embarrassment to the Soviets. The idea that the Soviets required a buffer along its border from all the terrible countries out there was very popular. Now that I think about it, it reminds me of how the Bush Administration came up with a million different BS reasons why Saddam was a threat to the US. > [@](#): > > Of course it was all that, but it was never an invasion – they were, after all, invited by the government. Yes. Invited. Do you realize that as soon as the Speznaz arrived in Kabul, they proceeded to execute the President of Afghanistan, Hafizullah Amin? Keep in mind that Amin was obsessed with the idea that the KGB was trying to assassinate him during his brief time in office (even paranoids can be right), and that Mohammad Taraki, the PREVIOUS president of Afghanistan (who was in fact murdered by Amin and his henchman, Karmal) was the one who had been pressing for Soviet military intervention, and this whole invitation thing really ought to be seen as little more than an attempt to propagandize a blatant invasion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/64 "2008-05-20T17:27:03Z")
Update: [The _Jerusalem Post_ this week quoted a Bush Admin official as saying they plan to attack Iran in the coming months, but the WH denies it.](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-20-bush-iran_N.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/65 "2008-05-28T19:17:02Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Update: [The _Jerusalem Post_ this week quoted a Bush Admin official as saying they plan to attack Iran in the coming months, but the WH denies it.](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-20-bush-iran_N.htm) [/QUOTE] [And more . . .](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html) > [@](#): > > NEW YORK - The George W Bush administration plans to launch an air strike against Iran within the next two months, an informed source tells Asia Times Online, echoing other reports that have surfaced in the media in the United States recently. > > Two key US senators briefed on the attack planned to go public with their opposition to the move, according to the source, but their projected New York Times op-ed piece has yet to appear. > > The source, a retired US career diplomat and former assistant secretary of state still active in the foreign affairs community, speaking anonymously, said last week that the US plans an air strike against the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC). The air strike would target the headquarters of the IRGC’s elite Quds force. With an estimated strength of up to 90,000 fighters, the Quds’ stated mission is to spread Iran’s revolution of 1979 throughout the region. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/66 "2008-05-28T19:33:28Z")
Nothing like a couple of friendly cruise missiles to win hearts and minds. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/67 "2008-05-29T14:36:41Z")
[http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/07/unger-article/](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/07/unger-article/) The neos still have a taste for blood. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/68 "2008-05-29T14:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/07/unger-article/](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/07/unger-article/) The neos still have a taste for blood. [/QUOTE] Of course they do. It’s not _their_ blood. Somehow it’s _never_ their blood. As long as it’s not their veins that the blood is coming from, the $ will always be more important. The world would be a better place if the actual leaders of countries went to war, personally, with each other, instead of sending the youth of their nation off to kill each other. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/69 "2008-05-29T14:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The world would be a better place if the actual leaders of countries went to war, personally, with each other, instead of sending the youth of their nation off to kill each other. [/QUOTE] I used to think that same thing until I realized that would leave us with either Wanderlei Silva or Jet Li as the emperor of the planet. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/70 "2008-05-29T14:45:08Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The world would be a better place if the actual leaders of countries went to war, personally, with each other, instead of sending the youth of their nation off to kill each other. [/QUOTE] Wonder how W would fare in a caged death-match against Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il? Are weapons permitted? Chainsaws, perhaps? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/71 "2008-05-29T14:49:13Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] I used to think that same thing until I realized that would leave us with either Wanderlei Silva or Jet Li as the emperor of the planet. [/QUOTE] True, true… wonders how one applies to the Imperial Gay Harem Corps ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/72 "2008-05-30T01:50:32Z")
Bush never finds a reason to wage peace. He never finds a reason to talk. Just shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/73 "2008-05-30T02:41:08Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The world would be a better place if the actual leaders of countries went to war, personally, with each other, instead of sending the youth of their nation off to kill each other. [/QUOTE] Used to be. Somewhere along the line, they figured out how to sell the concept that they were too important to risk. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/74 "2008-05-31T04:10:29Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [And more . . .](http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html) “[bTwo key US senators briefed on the attack\*\* planned to go public with their opposition to the move, according to the source, but their projected New York Times op-ed piece has yet to appear.” [/QUOTE] Oh wait… From the same article, "In a statement received by Asia Times Online from Feinstein’s office, the senator said she “has not received any briefing, classified or unclassified, from the administration involving any plans to strike Iran”. " Still awaiting anyone to take my bet. I say Bush will not bomb or attack Iran. Despite the mountain of evidence that has been accumulating for five years that an attack on Iran is just around the corner, nobody has taken me up on a wager. Ah, well, I can dream. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/75 "2008-05-31T04:33:55Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Still awaiting anyone to take my bet. I say Bush will not bomb or attack Iran. Despite the mountain of evidence that has been accumulating for five years that an attack on Iran is just around the corner, nobody has taken me up on a wager. Ah, well, I can dream. [/QUOTE] We all thought the invasion of Iraq was too stupid an idea to contemplate (at the very least, while we were still quite active participants in Afghanistan)… Fool me once, shame on you, etc. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/76 "2008-05-31T04:48:23Z")
An awkward situation. I hope you are right, but to bet against you is to bet that the Bushiviks might commit one of the most colossal blunders of international history. Which might seem far fetched if they had not just committed one of etc. etc. Somebody seems intent on keeping this possibility fresh in our minds. Mr Bolton comes to mind, as well as those sombre thinkers who nod their heads as he speaks hard-headed and realistic truths. Ah, these hard-nosed realists, wherever would we be without them, what great strides we might have missed!.. Even so, it is stupid to tell someone you intend to attack them, it is even more stupid to say so when you don’t! Sabre-rattling is the height of stupidity. Unless… unless the hopeful prospect is to increase tension to a point where an incident may arise, an opportunity to wave the bloody shirt and let crocodile tears flow over your flag pin. Is this paranoid thinking? Only if the Bushiviks can be credited with reasonable good sense, if they can be trusted. An “unprovoked attack” would be manna from heaven for GeeDub, it would prove him right, or at least justified. And its easy enough for a sane and reasonable man to believe what is best for him, how much more so for a feckless pissant like GeeDubya? SO perhaps all this bluster and bravado doesn’t increase, much, the likelihood of the ghastly scenarios. But they sure as hell don’t help avert them. And one is hard pressed for a \*good \*reason why. Makes all the sense in the world if you want a war, damn little if you want to prevent one. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/77 "2008-05-31T05:42:48Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] We all thought the invasion of Iraq was too stupid an idea to contemplate (at the very least, while we were still quite active participants in Afghanistan)… [/QUOTE] What do you mean "we,’ kimosabe? Did you seriously think Bush wasn’t going to invade Iraq? > [@elucidator](#): > > I hope you are right, but to bet against you is to bet that the Bushiviks might commit one of the most colossal blunders of international history. So what does that have to do with the bet? > [@](#): > > Even so, it is stupid to tell someone you intend to attack them, it is even more stupid to say so when you don’t! Err… maybe you haven’t been reading the news, but the White House has never publicly said it was going to attack Iran, and John Bolton doesn’t speak for Bush. Bolton speaks for Bolton’s whacko agenda. He’s criticized the White House a fair bit since he left the UN, so clearly he’s no mouthpiece. This is just another one of five years’ worth of reports from well-placed insiders that an attack is coming soon. Any day now. Just wait. It’s coming. Just be patient. If anonymous people said it, it must be true. Seriously, any day now. It’s been five years, so an attack is due, right? > [@](#): > > Only if the Bushiviks can be credited with reasonable good sense, if they can be trusted. A fucking stupid argument. The question isn’t whether the White House can be trusted, or whether they generally have good sense, the question is whether they’re going to bomb Iran. And I say they aren’t. And I’m very confident that I’ll be proven right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/78 "2008-05-31T05:57:04Z")
Unless, of course, Mr Bolton is not as independent as you seem to believe. I think, on the other hand, that should Dick Cheney want him to give a high pitched scream, Cheney simply reaches into his pocket and gives Mr Bolton’s testicles a good hard squeeze. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/79 "2008-05-31T15:49:10Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Unless, of course, Mr Bolton is not as independent as you seem to believe. [/QUOTE] Perhaps he’s a secret Muslim. Perhaps he’s a mind-reading psychic from the future. Perhaps he’s an elephant in disguise. Perhaps he’s a waffle. Does throwing out unsubstantiated guesses help me prove my point? No? Then why do you think it helps you? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140/80 "2008-07-03T13:43:53Z")
Cockburn is no longer the sole source for this – [Seymour Hersh](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh?currentPage=all) has picked up on it. Sources remain confidential, but [Hersh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh) at any rate has Pulitzer-level credibility as a journalist. > [@](#): > > Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program. > > \ > > Under federal law, a Presidential Finding, which is highly classified, must be issued when a covert intelligence operation gets under way and, at a minimum, must be made known to Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and the Senate and to the ranking members of their respective intelligence committees—the so-called Gang of Eight. Money for the operation can then be reprogrammed from previous appropriations, as needed, by the relevant congressional committees, which also can be briefed. > > “The Finding was focussed on undermining Iran’s nuclear ambitions and trying to undermine the government through regime change,” a person familiar with its contents said, and involved “working with opposition groups and passing money.” The Finding provided for a whole new range of activities in southern Iran and in the areas, in the east, where Baluchi political opposition is strong, he said. > > Although some legislators were troubled by aspects of the Finding, and “there was a significant amount of high-level discussion” about it, according to the source familiar with it, the funding for the escalation was approved. In other words, some members of the Democratic leadership—Congress has been under Democratic control since the 2006 elections—were willing, in secret, to go along with the Administration in expanding covert activities directed at Iran, while the Party’s presumptive candidate for President, Barack Obama, has said that he favors direct talks and diplomacy. Of course, U.S. support for Balochi separatists in southeastern Iran is bound to complicate our relations with our ally-in-the-GWOT Pakistan, which has its own Balochi separatist movement in its southwest. The Balochi areas are [shown in pink on this map.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Major_ethnic_groups_of_Pakistan_in_1980.jpg) And then there are the [Kurds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kurdish-inhabited_area_by_CIA_%281992%29.jpg) . . . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-signs-finding-authorizing-wider-covert-offensive-v-iran/448140.md?page=5)