# Bush Sr. pardoning himself?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570 "2008-12-03T21:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/1 "2008-12-03T21:41:00Z")
As suggested in this thread[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495758](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495758) I was intrigued that Pres. Bush the first would have considered pardoning himself for something. I can’t recall him doing anything that would require him even considering a pardon…I thought his presidency was fairly uneventful in the scandal scheme of things. So I’m asking…what did he do that would require a pardon? I’m asking about the first Bush…you know the older of the two presidents named Bush. THe father of our current president…the one right after Reagan and before Clinton. The WWII pilot…“Read My Lips” guy… ALso, I’m not sure this belongs in Great Debates; but I only do what the moderators tell me to do…if it needs to be moved to somewhere more appropriate, I’m ok with that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/2 "2008-12-03T22:14:19Z")
Heh, Bush Sr. probably did plenty for which he would require a pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/3 "2008-12-03T22:25:26Z")
Bush 1, I believe, presided over a lot of the various playing about in South America by the CIA. That would probably be where he most likely made the most decisions that wouldn’t be considered fully above the board. I’d venture to guess, though, that almost all presidents have ordered various unethical and illegal things to happen in the name of the greater good, and that there’s probably nothing wrong with that for the most part. It’s more a question of how slickly they pulled it off and whether it was really the best choice to begin with. It’s always going to be an area of greys. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/4 "2008-12-03T22:27:14Z")
Iran-Contra is all I can think of but I thought that was behind him when he became President. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/5 "2008-12-03T23:24:04Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > As suggested in this thread[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495758](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495758) > > I was intrigued that Pres. Bush the first would have considered pardoning himself for something. I can’t recall him doing anything that would require him even considering a pardon…I thought his presidency was fairly uneventful in the scandal scheme of things. > > So I’m asking…what did he do that would require a pardon? . I would note that nowhere in that thread did anyone present any evidence that Bush I considered pardoning himself. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/6 "2008-12-04T00:49:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Iran-Contra is all I can think of but I thought that was behind him when he became President. Yeah…I think it is Iran-Contra. [Here](http://tech.mit.edu/V112/N39/contra.39w.html) is a story from the time of his unsuccessful re-election campaign in 1992: > [@](#): > > Like dogged ghosts from a past that President Bush would rather forget, questions from the Iran-Contra scandal have resurfaced in the presidential campaign, reviving once more the issue of Bush’s truthfulness about his actions as Ronald Reagan’s vice president. > > Ever since the scandal erupted almost six years ago, Bush has maintained that he was unaware that Reagan was secretly trading weapons to Iran as ransom for American hostages, and that he did not realize that then-Secretary of State George P. Shultz PhD '49 and then-Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger bitterly opposed the deal. > > But the testimony of other high officials has contradicted the key points of Bush’s account. On the other hand, I don’t think any of this ever rose to the level that people were seriously talking about pardons. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/7 "2008-12-04T01:46:43Z")
There are, categorically, only two things for which it is appropriate for any President to consider pardoning himself. They are: publicly emitted ventings of bodily gasses (farts and belches), and inadvertent jostlings of moviegoers when transitting between a theatre seat and a snack bar. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/8 "2008-12-04T01:53:24Z")
I’m sure Bush the first did plenty of things he might need a pardon for, just we’ll never find out. He’d certainly be a good judge of whether he needed a pardon and certainly got some expert legal counsel on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/9 "2008-12-04T02:27:37Z")
From the Wiki article on GHWB: \*As other presidents have done, Bush issued a series of pardons during his last days in office. On December 24, 1992, he granted executive clemency to six former government employees implicated in the Iran-Contra scandal of the late 1980s, most prominently former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger. Weinberger, who had been scheduled to stand trial on January 5, 1993, for charges related to Iran-Contra, was described by Bush as a “true American patriot.” In addition to Weinberger, Bush pardoned Duane R. Clarridge, Clair E. George, Robert C. McFarlane, Elliott Abrams, and Alan G. Fiers Jr., all of whom had been indicted and/or convicted of charges by an Independent Counsel headed by Lawrence E. Walsh.\* From the Wiki article on Walsh: \*Walsh was responsible for bringing an indictment out of the grand jury against …Weinberger several days prior to the 1992 election which had a material impact on that election, as it carried with it an implication of culpability attached to George H.W. Bush from his role as Vice President in the Reagan administration. According to former Clinton advisor Dick Morris, Bill Clinton himself believed that this indictment was ultimately responsible for his victory, given his slipping poll numbers in the weeks leading up to the election. President Bush said that "the prosecutions represented a profoundly troubling development in the political and legal climate of our country: the criminalization of policy differences. The proper target is the president, not his subordinates; the proper forum is the voting booth, not the courtroom.” Senator Bob Dole said that “Lawrence Walsh and his desperate henchmen would have stopped at nothing to validate their reckless $35 million inquisition, even if it meant twisting justice to fit their partisan schemes.”\* There was some idle speculation in 1988-89 that Bush might pardon himself, as I recall, but it never went beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/10 "2008-12-04T15:19:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > There are, categorically, only two things for which it is appropriate for any President to consider pardoning himself. > > They are: publicly emitted ventings of bodily gasses (farts and belches), and inadvertent jostlings of moviegoers when transitting between a theatre seat and a snack bar. How about vomiting on a fellow Head of State? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/11 "2008-12-04T15:29:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > …publicly emitted ventings of bodily gasses (farts and belches)… A Jerry Ford factoid, mentioned by _Newsweek_ after his death, was that he would sometimes fart on elevators and then blame his Secret Service agents. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/12 "2008-12-04T15:54:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > There are, categorically, only two things for which it is appropriate for any President to consider pardoning himself. > > They are: publicly emitted ventings of bodily gasses (farts and belches), and inadvertent jostlings of moviegoers when transitting between a theatre seat and a snack bar. What if you vomit on the Prime Minister of Japan? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/13 "2008-12-04T18:42:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What if you vomit on the Prime Minister of Japan? He had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/14 "2008-12-04T18:49:39Z")
When you serve bad sushi to an honored guest, you accept the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/15 "2008-12-04T19:25:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > When you serve bad sushi to an honored guest, you accept the consequences. I wonder if there was Broccoli in it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-sr-pardoning-himself/475570/16 "2008-12-05T04:50:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What if you vomit on the Prime Minister of Japan? I guess I should have said “fluids and quasi-fluids”.