# Bush Strips Rights From Federal Gay Workers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 20, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317 "2004-03-20T00:10:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/1 "2004-03-20T00:10:10Z")
I have several gay friends in the federal workforce. They passed along the following to me today: > [@](#): > > Posted: March 17, 2004 2:01 p.m. ET > > (Washington, D.C.) Gay and lesbians in the entire federal workforce have had their job protections officially removed by the office of Special Counsel. The new Special Counsel, Scott Bloch, says his interpretation of a 1978 law intended to protect employees and job applicants from adverse personnel actions is that gay and lesbian workers are not covered. > > Bloch said that the while a gay employee would have no recourse for being fired or demoted for being gay, that same worker could not be fired for attending a gay Pride event. > > – snip – > > Bloch’s position is a marked departure from how the previous special counsel, Elaine Kaplan, enforced the law. “The legal position that he is taking, that there is some distinction between discrimination based on sexual orientation and discrimination based on conduct, is absurd,” Kaplan told Federal Times. > > Bloch was appointed by President Bush to a five year term beginning in January. So will there be a witch hunt to remove gays from the federal work force? Will the diversity of America no longer be reflected in the federal work force? Is this what is meant by compassionate conservatism? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/2 "2004-03-20T00:38:20Z")
Yes, and the VP towing the president’s line against marriage while his (the VP’s) daughter is a lesbian is “family values” that we hear so much about. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/3 "2004-03-20T01:07:44Z")
Here’s the [complete story](http://www.gaywired.com/article.cfm?section=9&id=2432) at [Gaywired.com](http://Gaywired.com) The Federal Times has a piece on Scott Bloch’s reasoning: [OSC to study whether bias law covers gays](http://federaltimes.com/index.php?S=2727185), while the Washington Blade dishes dirt on this new [Servant Of Bush](http://www.washblade.com/2004/3-19/news/national/council.cfm). ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/4 "2004-03-20T01:12:03Z")
Whoa… this is pretty nasty stuff. The guy is from a anti-gay think tank ? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/5 "2004-03-20T01:23:38Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > The guy is from a anti-gay think tank ? An oxymoron, if I ever heard one. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/6 "2004-03-20T01:35:26Z")
Wait, so can we start calling him a fascist NOW? I’m never clear on how long we have to bury our heads in the sand on that one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/7 "2004-03-20T03:21:53Z")
For starters, **Duckster** , Bush has done nothing of the sort. There are enough valid reasons to start another Bush Bashing thread that you didn’t need to stretch this far. From the Federal Times article that is linked to above: _OPM has held since 1980 that discrimination based on sexual orientation is covered as a prohibited personnel practice under the 1978 reform act and can be appealed to OSC. The act covers all conduct “which does not adversely affect” performance, although it doesn’t specifically list sexual orientation._ The as yet incomplete opinion of one recent appointee isn’t likely to override 24 years of government policy. I suppose this makes a good scare tactic type story, but in reality that one person’s opinion, however idiotic and/or influential he may be, can’t change established government procedures. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/8 "2004-03-20T04:44:36Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > The as yet incomplete opinion of one recent appointee isn’t likely to override 24 years of government policy. > > I suppose this makes a good scare tactic type story, but in reality that one person’s opinion, however idiotic and/or influential he may be, can’t change established government procedures. Well then- good thing to know we won’t need to be _voting_ for President… His point is basically true, though: lower-level functionaries in the Executive Branch are not going to start randomly firing gays because when a little sense is restored to the Special Counsel’s office they know their offices will be on the line. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/9 "2004-03-20T06:06:35Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > Wait, so can we start calling him a fascist NOW? I’m never clear on how long we have to bury our heads in the sand on that one. No, he’s not a fascist. He’s wrong, but still not a fascist. If you think that GWB is a fascist, you’ve never seen fascism, even at a distance. I also think that he must adore court challenges, and it isn’t a sure thing for this decision to be upheld. This is the same SCOTUS that, after all, effectively struck down all sodomy laws. It stinks that it will have to come to the courts, but it’s probably even odds that this decision will come back and bite, with long, nasty, sharp teeth, with any such exclusion being deemed unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/10 "2004-03-20T06:39:40Z")
If you want to see a real facist state, look at Cuba. Anyone who bemoans how the U.S. is turning into a police state and homosexuals are oppressed had better also ask themselves why way too many liberals have such a soft-spot for Castro’s regime. ---
**Author:** ![Pencil\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Pencil\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pencil_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/11 "2004-03-20T07:03:16Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > If you want to see a real facist state, look at Cuba. Anyone who bemoans how the U.S. is turning into a police state and homosexuals are oppressed had better also ask themselves why way too many liberals have such a soft-spot for Castro’s regime. I love comments like these. Evil liberals absolutely love fascist dictators. They have shrines built where they can worship their images. If they were on that hypothetical lifeboat, they would toss the doctors, nurses, women and children over the side before they would even consider tossing Castro. Those wacky liberals. Think about how often they say such stupid things. Maybe its just me, but I have heard this sentiment hundreds of times. They really do believe it. I’m not sure whether it comes from an inability to understand nuanced thought, or a belief that liberals are living lives of such self-deception that they believe up is down and wrong is right. Regardless, it is sad. Very, very sad. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/12 "2004-03-20T15:04:43Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > No, he’s not a fascist. Really? Just because you don’t want him to be? Awfully convenient, that. So let’s see, we’ve got rampant ultra-nationalism. We’ve got an all out attack on the middle class. We’ve got rampant militarism. We’ve got defiance of international law and custom. We have defiance of intranational law and custom. And we’ve got the targetting of a minority group for political advantage. Yes, actually he is a fascist. And all the hand-waving about not having gas chambers or having more money than the Latin American fascist hellholes isn’t going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/13 "2004-03-20T15:44:08Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > So let’s see, we’ve got rampant ultra-nationalism. Are you sure it’s not ultra-ultra-nationalism? That would sound scarier. > [@](#): > > We’ve got an all out attack on the middle class. Who could argue with that “fact”? > [@](#): > > We’ve got rampant militarism. Hey, at least it’s not ultra-militarism. After all, half the country has been conscrpted, right? > [@](#): > > We’ve got defiance of international law and custom. We have defiance of intranational law and custom. You can say that again. > [@](#): > > And we’ve got the targetting of a minority group for political advantage. Gee, no politician has ever done that before. In fact, Kerry is not promising to raise taxes on any particular group, is he? Please. We’ve been down this “fascist” debate many times and the supporters of that phrase have always ended up looking like fools. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/14 "2004-03-20T15:45:02Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > Really? Just because you don’t want him to be? Awfully convenient, that. > > So let’s see, we’ve got rampant ultra-nationalism. We’ve got an all out attack on the middle class. We’ve got rampant militarism. We’ve got defiance of international law and custom. We have defiance of intranational law and custom. And we’ve got the targetting of a minority group for political advantage. > > Yes, actually he is a fascist. And all the hand-waving about not having gas chambers or having more money than the Latin American fascist hellholes isn’t going to change that. No, you are simply monumentally ignorant of what fascism is. Must be nice to live in your pretty little ivory tower world. Come back once you’ve entered reality. Are you really so utterly ignorant as to think that the USA is a fascist state? I don’t recall John Kerry being arrested and shot for opposing the president. Have YOU been hunted down for saying what you say? You are the most monumentally ignorant person I have come across in a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/15 "2004-03-20T19:18:23Z")
There is a difference between fascism as an _attitude_ and a fascist state. Denouncing someone as a “traitor” for dissenting from government policy or disliking the leaders; regarding national symbols as “sacred”; being too enthusiastic about military action; placing the well-being of one’s country ahead of the well-being of the World; saying “you’re either with us or with our enemies”, these are all examples of fascism, albeit relatively mild ones by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/16 "2004-03-20T19:33:45Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > You are the most monumentally ignorant person I have come across in a very long time. Yeah, but at least he’s not monumentally ultra-ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/17 "2004-03-20T19:35:32Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > If you want to see a real facist state, look at Cuba. Anyone who bemoans how the U.S. is turning into a police state and homosexuals are oppressed had better also ask themselves why way too many liberals have such a soft-spot for Castro’s regime. Um… no. _Fascist_ doesn’t just mean _dictatorial_, you know. Castro’s policies are entirely from the left. He’s a Communist, which is about as far from a fascist in _policy_ terms as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/18 "2004-03-20T19:47:08Z")
Off the cuff accusations of fascism aside, what the hell are we doing here, going back to the 1800s? What’s next, more laws against oral sex? How about people with brown skin? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-strips-rights-from-federal-gay-workers/235317/19 "2004-03-20T20:38:42Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Off the cuff accusations of fascism aside, what the hell are we doing here, going back to the 1800s? What’s next, more laws against oral sex? How about people with brown skin? From The Federal Times Headline:“OSC to study whether bias law covers gays” You ask: “What the hell are we doing here…” Good question, since no laws have been changed, no actions have been taken, and all that’s been done so far is that some official without the power to change anything has announced that in his opinion the interpretation of a policy should be studied. The What is Fascism discussion aside, we we otta’ go back to watching basketball. PS: I’ll bet anybody $4.95 plus $14.95 (the first two year’s subscription price to the SDMB) that the referenced policy is not put into place for the federal government. You pick the cut-off date for waiting to see if it happens. No takers? Thought not.