# Bush surveillance program was massive (AP report): Is there no accountability left? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639 "2009-07-11T03:07:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/21 "2009-07-12T23:00:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, noes! My golden idol is tarnished! Why, he’s just exactly like Bush, except for not being a moron! Personally, that’s all I ask for. Bush wasn’t stupid for breaking the law. He was stupid for doing it _publicly_. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/22 "2009-07-12T23:21:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > [Meet the New Boss…](http://www.newsweek.com/id/202875) > > [Same as the old boss…](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/us/politics/22pledge.html) What, pray tell, does Obama’s backing away from his pledge about sunlight provisions and not being transparent enough have to do with Bush breaking the law and wiretapping people in the US without warrants? Because all I see is a pathetic, partisan attempt to divert attention. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/23 "2009-07-12T23:25:43Z")
False equivalence \*and \*tu quoque. The usual package deal. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/24 "2009-07-13T04:23:05Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What, pray tell, does Obama’s backing away from his pledge about sunlight provisions and not being transparent enough have to do with Bush breaking the law and wiretapping people in the US without warrants? Because all I see is a pathetic, partisan attempt to divert attention. Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot to include [this story](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07/president-obama-threatens-to-veto-intelligence-bill.html): > [@](#): > > **Obama Threatens to Veto Intelligence Bill** > President Obama threatened to veto the Intelligence Authorization Act Wednesday, asserting that Congress was unconstitutionally pursuing information about executive branch deliberations. > > Currently, the White House is required to report on certain covert actions to the “Gang of Eight” - the Speaker of the House, the House Minority Leader, the Senate Democratic and Republican Leaders, and the top Democrat and top Republican in both the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. > > The legislation being debated would amend the National Security Act of 1947 in ways, the Obama administration asserted, “that would raise significant executive privilege concerns” by requiring the disclosure to the Gang of Eight "internal Executive branch legal advice and deliberations. So right now, intelligence briefings only have to be given to a small group of senators. Democrats in the house want the full intelligence committee to be able to receive the information, and Obama thinks it’s so important that it not happen that way that he’s willing to veto the intelligence appropriations bill if they don’t remove that requirement. Watching “This Week” this morning in which the Bush program was discussed, it seems that it met the requirements Obama wants to keep. In addition, the program never went operational, so it never exceeded the threshold of reporting required for operational programs. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/25 "2009-07-13T06:21:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Unrestrained power of this sort is scary. Visions of 1984 are conjured in my mind. The George Orwell 1984 or the Oliver North 1984? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/26 "2009-07-13T08:29:23Z")
[Obama orders review of alleged slayings of Taliban in Bush era](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/12/obama.afghan.killings/index.html?eref=rss_topstories) Oddly enough, Frederick Forsythe wrote about this incident in his novel “The Afghan” which was published in 2006. > [@](#): > > (I)t was decided to hand over a further five thousand to the Uzbek commander, General Dostum. He wished to take them far to the west, to Sheberghan, inside his own territory. They were packed into steel freight containers without food or water, and so compressed they could only stand, straining upward for the air pocket above their heads. Somewhere on the road west, it was agreed to give them airholes. This was done with heavy machine guns that went on firing until the screaming stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/27 "2009-07-13T13:38:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, I’m sorry. You know what? I don’t think you are. It’s pretty hard for me to think that you truly are sorry for engaging in braindead partisan hackery when, in the very next sentence, you do the EXACT SAME THING. So, I’ll take your “sorry” for what it is worth. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639/28 "2009-07-13T13:58:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In addition, the program never went operational, so it never exceeded the threshold of reporting required for operational programs. I’m kind of curious about this “non-operational” thing. Panetta felt it was important to inform Congress about it. The Inspector General seemed to think something was amiss and report it. Panetta’s thing (not sure if it is the same as the IG report) lasted what…7 or 8 years? That is a lot of hoopla over something that was not operational. Wondering if “non-operational” is a smokescreen word for something that was 95% operational. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-surveillance-program-was-massive-ap-report-is-there-no-accountability-left/502639.md?page=1)