# Bush Telling the EU who can join the party **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016 "2002-12-11T16:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ShetlandPony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4bbf92/32.png) [@ShetlandPony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShetlandPony)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/1 "2002-12-11T16:00:37Z")
During the recent visit of the Prime Minister of Turkey, George Dubbwya announced he would help Turkey get into the EU. Why does think that he has the right to tell the EU who should join? Should the EU now tell Mexico that it will help it become the 51st State of the Union? [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021210/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_6](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_6) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/2 "2002-12-11T16:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShetlandPony \* > \*\*During the recent visit of the Prime Minister of Turkey, George Dubbwya announced he would help Turkey get into the EU. Why does think that he has the right to tell the EU who should join? > > Should the EU now tell Mexico that it will help it become the 51st State of the Union? > [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021210/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_6](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_6) \*\* He certainly has the right to say whatever he wants. I doubt it will have a lot of influence on the EU decision on such an important and difficult issue, though… ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/3 "2002-12-11T16:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Should the EU now tell Mexico that it will help it become the 51st State of the Union? I fyou mean “are they now compelled”, um… no? …Because the EU probably wouldn’t be united on the issue (1) and doesn’t care (2)? If they did care, and Mexico expressed an interest, can you tell me why they shouldn’t help if they wanted to? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/4 "2002-12-11T16:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShetlandPony \* > \*\*During the recent visit of the Prime Minister of Turkey, George Dubbwya announced he would help Turkey get into the EU. Why does think that he has the right to tell the EU who should join? > \*\* The First Amendment to the US Constitution? (“Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech…”) Sua ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/5 "2002-12-11T16:46:36Z")
In a recent post, **Shetland Pony** expressed umbrage at President Bush’s announcement that he’d try to help Turkey join the EU. What I’d like to know is why **Shetland Pony** thinks he (or she) has the right to tell Mr. Bush what to say, or not say? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/6 "2002-12-11T16:49:27Z")
Said in Turkey about the EU. Ah yes a 1st Amendment issue if ever there was one. Cool the way the whole world has the one Constitution, isn’t it? Put a good few 😛 in the above post btw ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/7 "2002-12-11T16:50:59Z")
BTW I have no problem with what Bush did whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![ShetlandPony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4bbf92/32.png) [@ShetlandPony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShetlandPony)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/8 "2002-12-11T16:53:55Z")
For Clarification: Does George W. Think it will make a difference? Do you think it will make a difference? How would the American public and political class react if the EU said that the would support Mexico joining the union ( or something similarily crass) better? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/9 "2002-12-11T16:57:29Z")
Of course has has the right to lobby the EU on Turkey’s behalf. The EU states, in turn, have the right to resent this. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/10 "2002-12-11T17:06:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShetlandPony \* > \*\*For Clarification: > > Does George W. Think it will make a difference? > > Do you think it will make a difference?\*\* Offense to Bush’s remarks is an overreaction IMHO. All is essentially saying is that he’d put a good word in for Turkey. Can’t hurt, might help. I doubt Bush is presuming any U.S. influence that does not, in fact, exist. Now, if the E.U. presented some kind of declaration that they felt that Puerto Rico is a fine candidate for American statehood, I’m sure that the American government would not take umbrage – it would simply be a declaration of confidence and good will regarding Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/11 "2002-12-11T17:06:51Z")
At the end of the day, Bush only has a limited influence on the EU as a whole because as an economic block they are actually larger than the US. Until Turkey cleans up it’s act especially concerning it’s human rights record, I have to say that even with Bush backing it, it will never be admitted. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/12 "2002-12-11T17:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tschild \* > \*\*Of course has has the right to lobby the EU on Turkey’s behalf. > The EU states, in turn, have the right to resent this. \*\* So far it’s just **Shetland Pony** and yourself. Are EU state governments THAT sensitive? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/13 "2002-12-11T17:30:18Z")
Gimme a break. America and Americans are _much_ touchier about any other country expressing an opinion on how the US should do things. Yes the US president has the _right_ to express any thoughts no matter how stupid or how impertinent. Whether it is a wise thing to do is another matter alltogether. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/14 "2002-12-11T17:35:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > **At the end of the day, Bush only has a limited influence on the EU as a whole because as an economic block they are actually larger than the US.** BS. [Cite](http://www.eurunion.org/profile/facts.htm). GDP of US is almost 30% higher, and GDP per capita is 70% higher. As a block of population, the EU is bigger, but not economically. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/15 "2002-12-11T18:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*Said in Turkey about the EU. Ah yes a 1st Amendment issue if ever there was one. > > Cool the way the whole world has the one Constitution, isn’t it? > > Put a good few 😛 in the above post btw \*\* psst, **yojimbo,** methinks the meeting took place in Washington. 😛 Sua ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/16 "2002-12-11T18:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*Offense to Bush’s remarks is an overreaction IMHO. All is essentially saying is that he’d put a good word in for Turkey. Can’t hurt, might help. I doubt Bush is presuming any U.S. influence that does not, in fact, exist. > > Now, if the E.U. presented some kind of declaration that they felt that Puerto Rico is a fine candidate for American statehood, I’m sure that the American government would not take umbrage – it would simply be a declaration of confidence and good will regarding Puerto Rico. \*\* And then I’d tell the Europeans to shove it as they ignored that Puerto Rico has had several referendums and has not decided to apply for statehood. Sorry, it’s just a bad example. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/17 "2002-12-11T18:48:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ScoobyTX \* > \*\*BS. [Cite](http://www.eurunion.org/profile/facts.htm). GDP of US is almost 30% higher, and GDP per capita is 70% higher. As a block of population, the EU is bigger, but not economically. \*\* Actually those figures are slightly out of date (it looks suspiciously like the GDP for 1999 or 2000). But I was repeating this information second hand, so I concede looking at the growths I probably was wrong (though I don’t know how the person who told me this worked it out themselves). ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/18 "2002-12-11T18:55:01Z")
Seems odd that the President of a country where state execution is carried out, and he was a governor of one state that is one of the most enthusiastic proponents, should be recommending that another nation, which has only just about to abolish it, should join a group of nations that are fundamentaly opposed to it. I understand the rationale behind his statement, the US would like to make more use of very strategic locations in Turkey and the closer Turkey’s ties are with the rest of Europe, the more likely that will happen. In other words, it is in the US interest that Turkey should join, which just might be enough for the French to use as part of a behind the scenes deal. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/19 "2002-12-11T19:08:46Z")
**casdave,** it is in the interests of Europe as well. Even setting a date to start negotiations would be an incredibly powerful statement that there is not a “war of civilizations” going on between Christianity and Islam. That may be a useful - as well as morally proper - thing to do. Sua ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016/20 "2002-12-11T19:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*Now, if the E.U. presented some kind of declaration that they felt that Puerto Rico is a fine candidate for American statehood, I’m sure that the American government would not take umbrage – it would simply be a declaration of confidence and good will regarding Puerto Rico. \*\* That’s not really comparing like with like though is it? Say Puerto Rico was a fully independent country that had made numerous applications to join the Union, but had always been turned down on account of its poor human rights record, pro-Communist political stance or \. Then Sila Calderón made a state visit to, say, Paris and while there President Chirac told Calderón not to worry about any future application getting turned down because the EU would do whatever it could to fix it. Do you really think the American public, or the US government wouldn’t tell Chirac to mind his own business? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-telling-the-eu-who-can-join-the-party/142016.md?page=2)