# Bush @ The UN **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521 "2003-09-24T12:05:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/1 "2003-09-24T12:05:18Z")
From [The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1048521,00.html) _Showing no contrition for defying the world body in March or the declining security situation in Iraq, the US president called for the world to set aside past differences and help rebuild the country: “Now the nation of Iraq needs and deserves our aid - and all nations of goodwill should step forward and provide that support,” he said._ Translation from Bush-speak: “Now the nation of the United States needs bailed out - and all nations that we gave the finger previously should forget that and step forward to save my political ass.” Did Bush really believe he was going to get away with this one? Did he really think that having so publically told the UN to go hang that he could walk back in six months later with a begging bowl and not a word of apology and expect a warm welcome? Or is he really as big a dick as he is increasingly appearing? ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/2 "2003-09-24T12:10:41Z")
Do you have to ask? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/3 "2003-09-24T12:13:40Z")
Eh, this is a sideline to the real dealing going on. The French and Germans want in, Bush knows it. He’s a big dick, but Chiraq and Schrotum are big vaginas: a match made in heaven. All three of them should be able to fuck this up royally. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/4 "2003-09-24T12:26:52Z")
Typical. No one gives him any credit for the bold and courageous stand he took against the international trade in child sex slaves! Now, that’s leadership! And I have no doubt that he will stand by that position, _regardless_ of how politically unpopular it may be! Has anyone heard Wesley Clark come out against international child sex slaves? Of course not, he hasn’t got the nerve to take such a potentially divisive stand! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/5 "2003-09-24T12:51:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\*Or is he really as big a dick as he is increasingly appearing? \*\* _Increasingly!?!?_ ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/6 "2003-09-24T13:02:32Z")
I was watching the footage of the speech and I was just waiting for the _slow handclap_ to break out. Instead just stony silence. I guess the EU members have a little more, shall we say, decorum than the [Women’s Institute](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/781183.stm). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/7 "2003-09-24T13:02:59Z")
What amuses me – largely because I’d probably do the same thing in their position – is that just about all the GOP, drum-beating regulars have gone on the missing list. And Lord knows, there were loads of them. I even recall Sam Stone recently complaining the board had gone all liberal when, imho, that simply isn’t the case; save for a couple of hard core and less than convincing tin foilers, they’re keeping their heads firmly below the parapet ‘til someone gets a grip of either the president or foreign policy. My multi-metaphored message to the bleeding hearts is, make hay while the sun shines, pump out your chests, strike up the band but keep 'em peeled cos they’ll be back . . ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/8 "2003-09-24T13:12:01Z")
More from the dimwitted charm them with insults, then act baffled when they don’t do what you want approach: > [@](#): > > Bush’s remarks did not overcome the gap between the United States and skeptical leaders, and a senior administration official made clear afterward that the United States intends to remain in charge of reconstruction as it insists on being in charge of the peacekeeping operation. > > “There is an important role for the U.N. to play,” the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. But, the official said, the Coalition Provisional Authority headed by American L. Paul Bremer “has to get the job done” and whatever resolution the Security Council may adopt must reflect “what really are the facts on the ground.” > > The official said Bush has touched off a debate about whether the United Nations is capable of dealing with the threats of the 21st century. “If you cannot reform the U.N., if the Security Council cannot act, then you leave no choice but for people to protect themselves,” the official said. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030924/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_un&cid=544&ncid=716](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030924/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_un&cid=544&ncid=716) I guess its a bit harder to sell a line of poorly thought our bullshit spin control when your not on Fox. > [@](#): > > UNITED NATIONS, Sept. 23 – In his speech today to the U.N. General Assembly, President Bush tried to walk a fine line between defending a war deeply unpopular in much of the world and looking for help from reluctant countries to rebuild Iraq. The result left diplomats and lawmakers puzzled about his ultimate intentions. > > Bush, in fact, sidestepped direct answers to many of the questions that have arisen since the administration said it would seek a Security Council resolution that would expand the United Nations’ role in Iraq and call on countries to contribute more troops and money. How quickly would the United States grant sovereignty to the Iraqis? Would the administration grant any decision-making role to the United Nations in exchange for its imprimatur? Or does the administration simply want assistance without giving up much in return? More on Bush’s UN stumblings: > [@](#): > > Bush’s rhetorical maneuvering room was limited in other ways. Faced with the worst approval ratings of his presidency, Bush designed his speech to appeal to a domestic audience. But the president’s conservative base, long skeptical of the United Nations, would not approve of an explicit acknowledgment of a broad U.N. role in Iraq. Bush limited his comments on potential U.N. aid to programs that bring broad bipartisan support, such as UNICEF and the World Food Program > > . . . . > > In the view of many in attendance here, Iraq is largely a problem of Bush’s making. The Security Council was deeply divided over whether to authorize military action against Iraq – and Bush withdrew a proposed resolution before the war when it faced certain defeat. Many nations might have been willing to support a war if the administration had been willing to give U.N. weapons inspections a few more weeks, but the administration refused to alter its military timetable. The inability to find proscribed weapons after the war also hurt the administration’s case. But who is really going to suffer- Bush and the rest of the Chickenhawks, maybe. But the real victims of Bush’s stupidity and arrogance are the American taxpayers and worst, American soldiers stuck in Iraq with no signs of help, progress, allies or even a fucking plan. We are recalling the wrong damn politican. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/9 "2003-09-24T13:14:58Z")
> [@](#): > > “Now the nation of the United States needs bailed out - and all nations that we gave the finger previously should forget that and step forward to save my political ass.” The second portion of your “translation” is quite correct, but I’d take issue with the first phrase. The _United States_ doesn’t nees to be “bailed out” at all. If the public really supported this stupid adventure, the rebuilding of Iraq is in entirely within the capabilities of the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/10 "2003-09-24T13:22:19Z")
More on Bush’s belly flop at the UN: > [@](#): > > Before and after Bush’s address, foreign leaders used the same podium to take shots at Bush’s policy of preemptively striking at emerging threats, calling such actions an attempt to discredit the United Nations and undermine international cooperation. > > U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, in an unusually impassioned condemnation of U.S. policy, said unilateralism is an assault on the cooperative principles of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and those who founded the United Nations that could spread the “lawless use of force.” And what exactly was Bush doing up there, other then looking a bit lost? > [@](#): > > Aides said Bush’s speech was meant to be something between an apology for his actions in Iraq, which the administration does not believe is warranted, and a defiant justification, which would only antagonize other countries. “We’re not here to litigate past differences – we’re here to move forward,” Bush communications director Dan Bartlett said. > > Bush has struggled with declining support for his Iraq policies and for his leadership generally as the postwar discord continues in Iraq. With his administration unable to identify a clear new policy initiative in Iraq, Bush’s recent speeches on the subject have failed to build support. A poll released today by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center found that 32 percent of Americans thought Bush has a clear plan for bringing the Iraq situation to a successful conclusion. Not good. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51543-2003Sep23.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51543-2003Sep23.html) Oh, I didn’t get a link in for my last post (last 2 quotes): [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54800-2003Sep23.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54800-2003Sep23.html) ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/11 "2003-09-24T13:36:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\* Did he really think that having so publically told the UN to go hang that he could walk back in six months later with a begging bowl and not a word of apology and expect a warm welcome? > \*\* Apology for what? When and where did the UN tell the Bush Administration it was wrong? Where is the UN Resolution condemning the US for the invasion and occupation of Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/12 "2003-09-24T13:37:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*The second portion of your “translation” is quite correct, but I’d take issue with the first phrase. The _United States_ doesn’t nees to be “bailed out” at all. If the public really supported this stupid adventure, the rebuilding of Iraq is in entirely within the capabilities of the U.S. \*\* What about “need” as in “need the US public to see this as an international venture, and thus require the capitulation of the UN”? Or is that unrealistic? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c37758/32.png) [@Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Owes_Bess)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/13 "2003-09-24T13:43:16Z")
**Futile** , (If I may be so bold as to call you by your first name) > [@](#): > > Showing no contrition for defying the world body in March or the declining security situation in Iraq, the US president called for the world to set aside past differences and help rebuild the country: The world body under reference is comprised of, for the most part, a congeries of rather disgusting tyrannies, mostly of the type that the reporters and editorial staff on the payroll of “The Guardian” worship, although they are not overly fussy in that area. Apart from Guardian reporters, why should anyone with any trace of moral fibre care what those who are in command and control of any benighted tyranny think? Going on to the second part of Prez B’s statement. It’s just a request for various countries to assist in the rebuilding process. (I assume you would agree that the war wasn’t “all about oil” which would make any request for aid redundant). The “translation” made by **futile** is not very plausible. Assistance from other countries is supposed to somehow “save” Prez B from precisely what hypothetical thing? This is highly speculative and nebulous stuff you’re serving up here. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/14 "2003-09-24T13:46:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > \*\*Apology for what? When and where did the UN tell the Bush Administration it was wrong? Where is the UN Resolution condemning the US for the invasion and occupation of Iraq? \*\* Ignorance and denial make life much easier to cope with, don’t they. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/15 "2003-09-24T13:52:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*Ignorance and denial make life much easier to cope with, don’t they. \*\* Nice assumption. Now answer the fucking question. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/16 "2003-09-24T13:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Guardian \* > **Showing no contrition for defying the world body in March or the declining security situation in Iraq, the US president called for the world to set aside past differences and help rebuild the country: “Now the nation of Iraq needs and deserves our aid - and all nations of goodwill should step forward and provide that support,” he said.** This is low down even for the Guardian. “Showing no **contrition** ”. Showing no friggin’ con-fucking-trition. How lame is that?! What the fuck did you expect? Should he say he’s sorry for thinking otherwise than the glorious Guardian? Say a million Ave Marias? Ask for repentance? Walk the Camino de Santiago backwards?! WTF?! “Defying the world body.” What friggin’ world body? A majority of countries? I’d like to see a count, as far as I remember a majority of European countries were behind the US. “Declining security situation.” Bollocks! But of course The Guardian will have it life under the great helmsman Saddam was way fabulous! Translation from Guardian-speak: “We the protector of virtue most holy and immaculate the Guardian have in our unlimited wisdom judged Bush to be mistaken. How dare he, he show no contrition - he must make amends.” - Rune ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/17 "2003-09-24T14:00:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > \*\*Apology for what? When and where did the UN tell the Bush Administration it was wrong? \*\* Have you spent the last six months with your fingers in your ears going “la la la!”??? > [@](#): > > \*\*Where is the UN Resolution condemning the US for the invasion and occupation of Iraq? \*\* Such a resolution is never going to appear because the US has a VETO. Remember them? Those were the nasty things that the terrible French were using and everyone just clean forgot how frequently the US florishes its. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/18 "2003-09-24T14:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > **Nice assumption. > Now answer the fucking question.** Let’s look at what you said. In response to this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > **Did he really think that having so publically told the UN to go hang that he could walk back in six months later with a begging bowl and not a word of apology and expect a warm welcome?** you said: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > \*\*Apology for what? When and where did the UN tell the Bush Administration it was wrong? Where is the UN Resolution condemning the US for the invasion and occupation of Iraq? \*\* That’s what’s called a strawman. **Futile** didn’t say that the UN told Bush he was wrong. It’s stupid of you to ask for proof of something that **Futile** didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/19 "2003-09-24T14:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alan Owes Bess \* > **…rather disgusting tyrannies, mostly of the type that the reporters and editorial staff on the payroll of “The Guardian” worship** Clearly you don’t read the Guardian, then, which is constantly banging on about human rights in tyrannical countries, and criticizing the West for its involvement therewith. > [@](#): > > \*\*Assistance from other countries is supposed to somehow “save” Prez B from precisely what hypothetical thing? \*\* Try “humiliating withdrawal” (and I don’t mean from Laura). ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/20 "2003-09-24T14:17:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\* Such a resolution is never going to appear because the US has a VETO. Remember them? Those were the nasty things that the terrible French were using and everyone just clean forgot how frequently the US florishes its. \*\* So a Security Council Resolution is the UN’s only option? Surely they can pass a general resolution condemning the US. So where is it, where is the condemnation? It should be even simpler, since the US can’t veto that. The UN condemned the US on [Cuba](http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,11983,712675,00.html), surely something as serious as the invasion of another country could get such a condemnation. I mean, if all these countries where so against the US, then surely they have the stones to come out and say “you were wrong”. If the UN can’t come together as a unified body against one of its members, even one on the Security Council, and tell them they were wrong, then why should they expect an apology. **Desmostylus** , what part of “word of apology” do you NOT understand? If the Bush should have given an apology, surely it was for some king of wrong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521.md?page=2)