# Bush @ The UN **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521 "2003-09-24T12:05:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/21 "2003-09-24T14:21:32Z")
Correction: If Bush should have given an apology, surely it was for some kind of wrong. You know, it is NOT easy typing with a Carpel Tunnel Brace on! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/22 "2003-09-24T14:35:52Z")
Aww c’mon. You guys really do call him “the Bush” when you think there aren’t any of those nasty liberals around, don’t you ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/23 "2003-09-24T14:41:01Z")
Jeez, you can argue about resolutions as long as you want, but the clear fact is that the Bush told the UN go stick its arms inspectors and ignored its decision to not invade Iraq. He and advisors then spent a while strutting about bad-mouthing fellow members of the Security Council for their actions. Does it take a UN Resolution before it penetrates the Bush skull that others may bear a grudge, and may not be overly keen on helping him fix his own mess? Any politician would know that the first thing you do in such a sitation is start building bridges, make concessions. But instead Dubya wanders in and makes a speech that ignores what everyone else is thinking and tries to lay on a guilt trip. Either he is a total moron or has decided to brazen it out. Either way, he’s not going to get what he really want and that’s saving his own hide from embarrassing and massive costs or even more embarrassing withdrawal. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/24 "2003-09-24T14:46:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Aww c’mon. You guys really do call him “the Bush” when you think there aren’t any of those nasty liberals around, don’t you ? 😉 \*\* I thought for sure you’d go after the “king of wrong” typo. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/25 "2003-09-24T14:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > \*\*king of wrong. \*\* Quite so. Bush: “Lie…mistatement…fabrication…self justification. Thank You.” UN:\<\\> …\<\\> So quiet, you could hear a pin(head) drop. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/26 "2003-09-24T15:19:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > \*\*I thought for sure you’d go after the “king of wrong” typo. 😉 \*\* Or for you ignoring all of the Cites provided which refuted most of your points, while providing none of your own. I mean there were so many to pick from, where to start was the question. . . :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/27 "2003-09-24T15:47:25Z")
Am I the only one that finds the posted snippet from the OP to be outrageously over the top biased for a supposedly run-of-the-mill new report? _“Contrition”_ _“Defying the world body”_ _“Declining security situation”_ all in one sentence. (I want a cite on those Guardian 🙂 )The paper could just as easily have made the report without resorting to such blatant colouring. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/28 "2003-09-24T15:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Or for you ignoring all of the Cites provided which refuted most of your points, while providing none of your own. > \*\* Huh? All of the Cites? Most of my points? What in blue blazes are you babbling about? I had one point. The UN never condemned Bush for the Iraq invasion, so they should not be expecting some kind of apology as suggested by the OP. I had one cite. That was to show that the UN can condemn the US for action, as it has done with Cuba. But there has been no such condemnation for the US on Iraq. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I mean there were so many to pick from, where to start was the question. . . > > :dubious: \*\* Why not give it a try then since you seem so sure of yourself. Show me all these cites I ignored and most of the points 😕 that got refuted. Start wherever you like. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/29 "2003-09-24T16:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*_Increasingly!?!?_ \*\* Okay, how about asymptotically. I myself enjoyed the concise summation in the title of Kaplan’s piece on Slate, which was something to the effect of “Bush lays an egg at the UN.” ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/30 "2003-09-24T16:24:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seal\_cleaner \* > \*\*Quite so. > > Bush: “Lie…mistatement…fabrication…self justification. Thank You.”\*\* You forgot the obligatory 9/11 reference leading off the speech. 😉 And did anyone else think that the laundry list of countries/causes that require aid started to sound like a public television pledge drive after a while? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/31 "2003-09-24T16:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*What about “need” as in “need the US public to see this as an international venture, and thus require the capitulation of the UN”? Or is that unrealistic? \*\* Well, that would be, as I think I agreed, a bail out of Bush’s political career. I was thinking more along the lines of financial and intellectual/professional resources along with material commodities, all of which the U.S. has a’plenty. Maybe I was reading something into the original statement that wasn’t intended. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/32 "2003-09-24T17:02:28Z")
From the Onion, of course: > [@](#): > > U.S. Invades Non-Oil-Rich Nation To Dispel Criticism > LUXEMBOURG VILLE, LUXEMBOURG—In an effort to quiet criticism of U.S. military policy, 50,000 U.S. troops invaded and soundly defeated the non-oil-rich Grand Duchy of Luxembourg Monday. “Once again, the U.S. claims victory over a rogue nation,” said President Bush after the 45-minute war. “The people of Luxembourg, although prosperous and living in peace, have suffered under the tyranny of a monarchy for centuries. And allow me to point out that Luxembourg has not one drop of crude oil.” Troops will return home Friday, following the public hanging of Grand Duke Henri de Luxembourg. [http://www.theonion.com/3937/](http://www.theonion.com/3937/) > [@](#): > > Before and after Bush’s address, foreign leaders used the same podium to take shots at Bush’s policy of preemptively striking at emerging threats, calling such actions an attempt to discredit the United Nations and undermine international cooperation. > [@](#): > > Aides said Bush’s speech was meant to be something between an apology for his actions in Iraq, which the administration does not believe is warranted, and a defiant justification, which would only antagonize other countries. Reading comprehension too much to ask for, or are you providing proofs for **Desmostylus** theory? Either that or you may be trying a Bush-like sematic exercise with regards to the harsh reception Bush’s Iraq mistakes received in the UN chamber. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/33 "2003-09-24T17:13:50Z")
For those looking for literary diversions in this arena, I saw this book review on the Onion: > [@](#): > > Sheldon Rampton & John Stauber > Weapons Of Mass Deception: The Uses Of Propaganda In Bush’s War On Iraq (Penguin) > > Muckrakers Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber, authors of Toxic Sludge Is Good For You! and Trust Us, We’re Experts!, specialize in exposing the role public relations plays in molding popular opinion and shaping government policy. By nature, PR people thrive in secrecy, which is why Stauber and Rampton have done a tremendous service by subjecting the industry’s tactics to the harsh light of open scrutiny. As its title suggests, Weapons Of Mass Deception explores the role PR played in marshalling public support for George W. Bush’s war in Iraq. Written in a sharp, direct, reportorial style, Deception explores the looking-glass world of modern-day political PR, where the U.S. is perceived as a strong brand, not unlike Coca-Cola or Home Depot, and foreign-policy initiatives are rolled out like a new product launch. Many of the strategies detailed in the book will be familiar to readers of Toxic Sludge—most significantly, the establishment of heavily funded front groups with noble-sounding names to give the illusion of grassroots support. Packed with footnotes and hard data, Deception carefully debunks many of Bush’s rationales for going to war. The ties between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are shown to be slippery at best, nonexistent at worst, and based on flimsy evidence; the same goes for evidence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. At times, Rampton and Stauber belabor the obvious: Including a partial transcript from The O’Reilly Factor to show that Bill O’Reilly is a bullying reactionary, for example, is like pointing to a specific event to prove that Michael Jackson might be slightly eccentric. For the most part, however, Deception squarely hits its target. Stauber and Rampton leave the name-calling to the attack dogs on the left and right, allowing the damning evidence to speak for itself. —Nathan Rabin ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Belanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Jay\_Belanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Belanger)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/34 "2003-09-24T17:31:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ThunderBug \* > **The UN never condemned Bush for the Iraq invasion, so they should not be expecting some kind of apology as suggested by the OP.** Whether or not the UN condemned him, he certainly owes them an apology. He tried to strongarm and bribe other countries to go along with his plan, he presented faulty information to back his position, information that if he didn’t know was faulty he knew wasn’t solid. (“He” refers to his administration, of course.) Jay ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/35 "2003-09-24T17:36:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WinstonSmith \* > **This is low down even for the Guardian.** And your post is even worse. A masterful avoidance of the subject! > [@](#): > > **"Showing no contrition". Showing no friggin’ con-fucking-trition. How lame is that?! What the fuck did you expect? Should he say he’s sorry for thinking otherwise than the glorious Guardian? Say a million Ave Marias? Ask for repentance? Walk the Camino de Santiago backwards?! WTF?!** No where in the article is it suggested that Bush should do anything in relation to “The Guardian”. Their words obviously refer to his relationship to the UN, as you well know. Your outrage is nothing but chaff. > [@](#): > > **"Defying the world body." What friggin’ world body? A majority of countries? I’d like to see a count, as far as I remember a majority of European countries were behind the US.** No where is a head-count of European, or any other countries, mentioned. This is entirely your invention. The ‘world body’ is that of the UN which repeatedly refused to sanction the US action and was subsequently ignored by them. If you have a problem with this description for the ‘UN’, please explain, but leave your strawman at home. > [@](#): > > **“Declining security situation.” Bollocks! But of course The Guardian will have it life under the great helmsman Saddam was way fabulous!** No where is life under Saddam referred to. This strawman must sadly join the rest of your parade. The Guardian’s comment is in regard to the increasingly violent and organised internal opposition to the US troops in Iraq, it is not a comparison to Saddam’s regime. > [@](#): > > \*\*Translation from Guardian-speak: > > “We the protector of virtue most holy and immaculate the Guardian have in our unlimited wisdom judged Bush to be mistaken. How dare he, he show no contrition - he must make amends.”\*\* Translation from WinstonSmith-speak: “I cannot defend Bush’s stance, so I will release an army made of straw for me to mow down and then attack the messenger.” ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/36 "2003-09-24T17:52:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Before and after Bush’s address, foreign leaders used the same podium to take shots at Bush’s policy of preemptively striking at emerging threats, calling such actions an attempt to discredit the United Nations and undermine international cooperation. \*\* This is your cite for condemnation? A few leaders taking shots? :rolleyes: I cited the UN vote of 167-3 against the US embargo on Cuba. You cited an editorial piece. Care to try again? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > **Aides said Bush’s speech was meant to be something between an apology for his actions in Iraq, which the administration does not believe is warranted, and a defiant justification, which would only antagonize other countries.** Sorry, I don’t know what you think this proves or refutes. Seems to me this is politics as usual. Apologizing without truly apologizing, pacifying people to create an end to their means. Kind of reminds me of a Simpsons Episode (of course, what doesn’t?) Kang posing as Bob Dole gives an electoral speech: “Abortions for all.” [crowd boos] “Very well, no abortions for anyone.” [crowd boos] “Hmm… Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.” [crowd cheers and waves miniature flags] ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/37 "2003-09-24T17:58:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*I was thinking more along the lines of financial and intellectual/professional resources along with material commodities, all of which the U.S. has a’plenty. \*\* and do you have a plan for coming up with the 87 Billion for this year alone? (other than simply tacking it onto the deficit, which is apparently the current plan). which programs/services do you wish to suspend to pay for it? See, the thing is, when we’re in a deficit spending pattern along with a spiraling down economy, this is, for me at least, **not** the time to have come up with ‘hey, let’s find a whole new way to spend gobs of money’ ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/38 "2003-09-24T17:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > What amuses me – largely because I’d probably do the same thing in their position – is that just about all the GOP, drum-beating regulars have gone on the missing list. So because there were no conservative posters in the WHOLE GODDAMNED HOUR between the OP and your posts, that means they’re running away scared? Christ, London, that’s the first time I’ve seen someone get a stiffy from patting himself on the back. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/39 "2003-09-24T18:13:26Z")
Perhaps there are different journalistic standards in the UK. That trainwreck of an article in The Guardian is an editorial, plain and simple. **Futile Gesture** , you are not seeing the forest for the trees. That you choose to flail aimlessly at **WinstonSmith** ’s post, rather than direct your anger at the gall of the Guardians substandard editorial staff is sad, but telling. Come to think of it, with the BBC’s recent admissions, there certainly seems to be a different (lower) standard among British journalists. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521/40 "2003-09-24T18:16:38Z")
> [@](#): > > This is your cite for condemnation? A few leaders taking shots? I cited the UN vote of 167-3 against the US embargo on Cuba. You cited an editorial piece. Care to try again? So you are hanging your whole hat on the lack of a formally passed condemnation. Pathetic. The “few leaders” were the UN Secretary General and the leaders of major Europeen countries. Oops. Why try again, you have made it clear that no amount of Cites or logic will sway you from the party line no matter how absurd. Keep your head in the sand (or other places). And my Cite was from **Page 1 of the Washington Post** , shit for brains. Hard to miss it, when the paper was delivered this morning, it being a front page news article. Its not some Op-Ed piece. I see your “facts” are about as accurate as Bush’s WMD claims. Maybe try reading it this time: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54800-2003Sep23.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54800-2003Sep23.html) :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-the-un/203521.md?page=3)