# Bush: There is No "Plan B" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003 "2007-01-29T20:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/41 "2007-01-30T04:39:51Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] And those meddling kids! Don’t forget about them! [/QUOTE] taken care of, in post 9 😃 ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/42 "2007-01-30T04:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=wring] taken care of, in post 9 😃 [/QUOTE] But what about Poland? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/43 "2007-01-30T05:21:20Z")
[QUOTE=wring] taken care of, in post 9 😃 [/QUOTE] :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/44 "2007-01-30T05:38:19Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Otherwise, what’s the point in living? [QUOTE=Evil Captor] Well, you might get laid or something … [/QUOTE] Failing the ‘get laid’ part, the ‘something’ part (a.k.a. ‘chocolate’). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/45 "2007-01-30T05:54:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Nah, what everyone is missing is that we’re currently on Plan C. > > Plan A - Stroll into Iraq and be greeted with roses and chocolate hearts > > Plan B - Fight insurgency, poorly > > Plan C - Fight insurgency, poorly, with more troops No, one of the most underreported aspects of the “surge” is that we’ve already tried more troops. The proposed plan is basically going to return the American troop level in Iraq back to what it was two years ago - which pretty much disproves the theory that 21,000 more troops are going to restore peace in Iraq. The only way that this can honestly be called a new plan would be if Bush accepted the pre-war Pentagon estimates and increased the troop level by something like 150,000 additional troops. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/46 "2007-01-30T06:31:31Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] I doubt he is, it would kinda kill his ‘fight them there instead of here’ talking point. [/QUOTE] “We’ve never been fight them there instead of here”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/47 "2007-01-30T11:08:58Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] He’s got another year and a half left - you think we’re not already doomed? [/QUOTE] A year and a half?? It’s January 30 - he’s got ten days short of two years left. I’m beginning to think Congress should impeach him and Cheney both, simply as an act of national salvation. The charge? “You guys aren’t just fucking up our country, you’re fucking up the whole freakin’ _world!!_” ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/48 "2007-01-30T11:33:31Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] Am I wrong in thinking that Bush is praying for another 9-11 to get him out of his current mess? [/QUOTE] He’s going to create his own by attacking Iran without congressional approval. No doubt on the back of some trumped up Gulf of Tonkin type incident or the pretext of Iranian ‘meddling’ in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/49 "2007-01-30T12:17:39Z")
Y’guys, see, the thing is, his plan (A, B, or C) all along has been to go in, make a stand, and at some point Jesus will come in and pulls our chestnuts out of the fire _(But hey, is there something wrong?/Jesus, what’s taking so long?/C’mon…)_. At least that’s how it looks to me. Faith-based military strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/50 "2007-01-30T13:54:01Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] That is the most scary, disheartening thing I have read in a a long time.Draw your own conclusion. [/QUOTE] I believe that neither Switzerland nor Sweden is a territory in Risk. Expecting Dubya to care whether or not there are any armies on them seems a little petty. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/51 "2007-01-30T14:08:27Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Expecting Dubya to care whether or not there are any armies on them seems a little petty. [/QUOTE] I’ve never met anyone who didn’t know that Switzerland has been historically neutral. A nation’s leader should be expected to know more about such things than the public at large. The Leader’s not knowing this is not acceptable – especially when he is offered the opportunity to say he misspoke. He could not even admit a minor mistake. Of course, I may have just been whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/52 "2007-01-30T14:10:03Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] The part that keeps amazing me is the idea that we are the only ones with any will. [/QUOTE] A lesson unlearnt again after Vietnam. I’d say as a rough rule of thumb - people who think they are fighting for a combination of their honour, their homeland and their god as they see it - against a casualty-adverse invader (whose casualty-avoidance tactics and strategies inevitably lead to high civilian casualties thus creating more enemies) will always have the greater will. Particularly when that enemy glories in martyrdom. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/53 "2007-01-30T14:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] I’ve never met anyone who didn’t know that Switzerland has been historically neutral. A nation’s leader should be expected to know more about such things than the public at large. The Leader’s not knowing this is not acceptable – especially when he is offered the opportunity to say he misspoke. He could not even admit a minor mistake. Of course, I may have just been whooshed. [/QUOTE] The way I heard the story, Bush later (next day?) came to the person that correctly stated it was Switzerland and not Sweden with no army, and told him that he was right and Bush was wrong. So at least he does have the capacity to look into a point of contention and admit error. But it does strike me as odd that a person in that position would make such a factual error, inconsequential as it may be. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/54 "2007-01-30T14:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=Ponder Stibbons] You know, Bush would be a _terrible_ football coach. “Run it up the middle!” “But coach, we’ve gone three-and-out the entire game! That play hasn’t worked yet and we’re behind 72 to nothing!” “I don’t care! It would be foolish to change our strategy at this point. There is no Plan B. Just run it up the middle already!” [/QUOTE] Holy Shit - Mike O’Cain is really George Bush! No wonder I never liked him. [QUOTE=Little Nemo] No, one of the most underreported aspects of the “surge” is that we’ve already tried more troops. The proposed plan is basically going to return the American troop level in Iraq back to what it was two years ago - which pretty much disproves the theory that 21,000 more troops are going to restore peace in Iraq. The only way that this can honestly be called a new plan would be if Bush accepted the pre-war Pentagon estimates and increased the troop level by something like 150,000 additional troops. [/QUOTE] Yes, but see, _this time_ we’re gonna actually secure the areas after we’ve cleaned them out. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/55 "2007-01-30T14:43:20Z")
The Sweden/Switzerland thing is troubling, to be sure, but one can understand making such a mistake, since they both start with Sw, and both of them are not America. I think a more troubling assertion is that, essentially on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, Bush is said to have had no idea that there were distinctions between Iraqis, such as Shia versus Sunni. Now, granted this might not be common knowledge among Americans, but one might think that in considering an invasion of a country such as Iraq, something might have come up about such things. [http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ambassador\_claims\_shortly\_before\_invasion\_Bush\_0804.html](http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ambassador_claims_shortly_before_invasion_Bush_0804.html) > [@](#): > > Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam–to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/56 "2007-01-30T15:26:23Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] A nation’s leader should be expected to know more about such things than the public at large. The Leader’s not knowing this is not acceptable. [/QUOTE] Y’all are reacting to this like it’s a surprise to you. I recall that when he was running for the 2000 election, the papers up here (and in the UK) were full of equal parts mirth that the race included someone so obviously handicapped by the whole dumb-as-a-bag-of-rocks thing, and apprehension about the consequences for the rest of the world should he _somehow_ be elected. Of course, back then we were mostly worried about a more insular U.S., with a _non-existent_ foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/57 "2007-01-30T15:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] > [@](#): > > In the Oval Office in December 2002, the president met with a few ranking senators and members of the House, both Republicans and Democrats. In those days, there were high hopes that the United States-sponsored ‘‘road map’’ for the Israelis and Palestinians would be a pathway to peace, and the discussion that wintry day was, in part, about countries providing peacekeeping forces in the region. The problem, everyone agreed, was that a number of European countries, like France and Germany, had armies that were not trusted by either the Israelis or Palestinians. One congressman – the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress – mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall. > > ‘‘I don’t know why you’re talking about Sweden,’’ Bush said. ‘‘They’re the neutral one. They don’t have an army.’’ > > Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ‘‘Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They’re the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.’’ Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion. > > Bush held to his view. ‘‘No, no, it’s Sweden that has no army.’’ > > The room went silent, until someone changed the subject. That is the most scary, disheartening thing I have read in a a long time.Draw your own conclusion. [/QUOTE] Oh mine! That is just… Wow! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/58 "2007-01-30T16:47:21Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] Oh mine! That is just… Wow! [/QUOTE] I suppose we just have to count ourselves lucky no major diplomatic incident arose from the Swiss refusal to send a carrier group to help out. Or Jamaica a regiment of their crack mountain troops. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/59 "2007-01-30T16:59:56Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] The Sweden/Switzerland thing is troubling, to be sure, but one can understand making such a mistake, since they both start with Sw, and both of them are not America. [/QUOTE] Up next: George Bush declares war on Swaziland. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003/60 "2007-01-30T17:10:57Z")
[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew] Up next: George Bush declares war on Swaziland. [/QUOTE] Well the Swazi’s did start WW2 by invading Poland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-there-is-no-plan-b/390003.md?page=4)