[QUOTE=Plexi Guy]
Yup. I’m not sure from their POV, they would even care who the President is. They are negotiating with America, not Bush.
[/QUOTE]
No, they’re negotiating (should they ever again get the chance to negotiate) with Israel; America’s supposed to (in W’s vision) play a mediator role, like Carter in the Camp David talks.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
No, they’re negotiating (should they ever again get the chance to negotiate) with Israel; America’s supposed to (in W’s vision) play a mediator role, like Carter in the Camp David talks.
[/QUOTE]
I guess if you want to split hairs, there is a difference between a mediatation and negotiation.
In any case, the Camp David accords resulted in on average 3 billion a year for the Israel and 1.5 billion a year for Egypt from the US. So I don’t think US was strictly 3rd party mediator.
Do you think the Hamas care if Israel recognizes them as a country? No. It only matters if the US does.
Oh, I can see him throwing some piece of crap resolution together at the last minute.
“Okay. Here’s my plan. Ready, set, go!”
5…
4…
3…
(Bush’s term ends)
2…
1…
Plan implodes.
Bush: “Hey, it’s not my fault! I just put the plan in place. It didn’t fail till I was out of office. Can’t stick this one on me. Nothin I can do about it now. Go talk to the new guy.”
[QUOTE=Trunk]
They’ve been arguing for 2000 years. It’s gotta be over soon.
(stolen from somewhere)
[/QUOTE]
You Don’t Mess With The Zohan (00:28 into the video)
Pop Culture Man away!
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
Maybe you haven’t noticed the small print, but one of the two states is Texas. 
[/QUOTE]
There is a Palestine, Texas.
What and negotiate with terrorists and extremists. That would not be prudent.
[QUOTE=plnnr]
Perhaps Professor Peabody and Sherman (Ever Dog Should Have a Boy) can use the Wayback Machine, go back to 2000 years, and straighten the entire mess out in the early stages.
[/QUOTE]
It would not surprise me in the least if this is actually Bush’s plan:
“Waddya mean there’s no such thing as the Wayback Machine? I seen it on the TV! Condi, get my some of them scientist guys on the phone. I want one of them machines in my office, pronto!”
[QUOTE=Hampshire]
Oh, I can see him throwing some piece of crap resolution together at the last minute.
“Okay. Here’s my plan. Ready, set, go!”
5…
4…
3…
(Bush’s term ends)
2…
1…
Plan implodes.
Bush: “Hey, it’s not my fault! I just put the plan in place. It didn’t fail till I was out of office. Can’t stick this one on me. Nothin I can do about it now. Go talk to the new guy.”
[/QUOTE]
And this is what amazes me. This happens every four freakin’ years, and the Israelis and Palestinians still fall for it! You’d think they’d start telling us to take a hike. Or at the very least, stop answering their phones. “Mr. Olmert? Mr. Bush wants to come and have peace talks.” “Crap, is it an election year already? Tell him I’m on vacation. He’ll buy that, the guy’s always on vacation.”
[QUOTE=Maureen]
And this is what amazes me. This happens every four freakin’ years, and the Israelis and Palestinians still fall for it! You’d think they’d start telling us to take a hike. Or at the very least, stop answering their phones. “Mr. Olmert? Mr. Bush wants to come and have peace talks.” “Crap, is it an election year already? Tell him I’m on vacation. He’ll buy that, the guy’s always on vacation.”
[/QUOTE]
I agree. Even so… can you imagine being the Prime Minister that DIDN’T try to negotiate peace? Half of Israel’s claim is that they are the reasonable ones. (Let’s forget about the settlements and such… :-P)
As for the Palestinians… I think I see that as pandering, too. If they are going to keep the sympathy of certain populations - they need to look like freedom fighters only fighting for their sliver of the pie (let’s forget some of the chants that go around in some of the meetings).
There’s only one way to end this, imo. But that’s not going to happen - and thank Og. We don’t need more people dead.
Bush is a moron. He’s wrong. He’s pandering too. But he’s dumb enough to believe it.
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading]
I agree. Even so… can you imagine being the Prime Minister that DIDN’T try to negotiate peace? Half of Israel’s claim is that they are the reasonable ones. (Let’s forget about the settlements and such… :-P)
As for the Palestinians… I think I see that as pandering, too. If they are going to keep the sympathy of certain populations - they need to look like freedom fighters only fighting for their sliver of the pie (let’s forget some of the chants that go around in some of the meetings).
[/quote]
Well, I didn’t say not negotiate peace. I meant not negotiate with us. It seems to be an obvious political stunt; we do it every election cycle. It’d be great if, just once, the Israelis and Palestinians both said “Thanks awfully, but we’re going to go through other channels with a mediator that’s more interested in helping us than in gaining political points back home.” Not that I ever expect that to happen; I just get bored with us negotiating in bad faith.
Well, you know, there are plenty of other prime ministers and foreign ministers and elder statesmen around the world other than the various US presidents. Why doesn’t the President of France get off his ass and do something about Palestine? After all, the Euros aren’t biased toward the Israelis, rather the reverse. And US “leverage” against the Israelis is only because we agreed to give them aid in return for the Camp David accords, if some Euro countries agreed to give them money they’d have the same leverage. If they need a “neutral” mediator, then someone other than the US should be involved, right?
Expecting the US to solve the problem is kind of dickish on the part of the rest of the world, don’t you think?
[QUOTE=Maureen]
Well, I didn’t say not negotiate peace. I meant not negotiate with us. It seems to be an obvious political stunt; we do it every election cycle. It’d be great if, just once, the Israelis and Palestinians both said “Thanks awfully, but we’re going to go through other channels with a mediator that’s more interested in helping us than in gaining political points back home.” Not that I ever expect that to happen; I just get bored with us negotiating in bad faith.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. It would look ungrateful on the part of Israel, though. All that money, arms, the nukes we helped them to…
[QUOTE=Lemur866]
Well, you know, there are plenty of other prime ministers and foreign ministers and elder statesmen around the world other than the various US presidents. Why doesn’t the President of France get off his ass and do something about Palestine? After all, the Euros aren’t biased toward the Israelis, rather the reverse. And US “leverage” against the Israelis is only because we agreed to give them aid in return for the Camp David accords, if some Euro countries agreed to give them money they’d have the same leverage. If they need a “neutral” mediator, then someone other than the US should be involved, right?
[/quote]
Sure. Do the Israelis and Palestinians get to agree on who that neutral third party should be? I’m not saying we have no right, just that we don’t really seem as invested in finding an answer as we are in making sure that our lame duck president has something to do to boost his party/candidate’s electability.
Where’d I say anything remotely about what the rest of the world wants, outside of Israel & Palestine? And really…does the rest of the world expect the US to solve it?
Well, we could always stop giving it to them…
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading]
the nukes we helped them to…
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Story here.
:rolleyes: George, I’d cheer you on if I thought you could do it. But the POTUS who negotiates a final settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians will have to be someone who has some credibility with both groups. That ain’t you. You’ve always sided with the Israelis against the Pals in any conflict. The Palestinians do not love you, trust you, nor respect you, nor have they any reason to listen to you. Accept reality and go quiet into that good night. What you’ve got now, is your legacy.
[/QUOTE]
Wait, you’re pitting him for trying to do something good and your only reasoning is that you don’t think he’ll be able to pull it off? And the chorus rejoices! Jesus, even I’m getting sick of Bush-bashing, and I never dreamed of voting for the man.
[QUOTE=Lemur866]
Well, you know, there are plenty of other prime ministers and foreign ministers and elder statesmen around the world other than the various US presidents. Why doesn’t the President of France get off his ass and do something about Palestine?
[/QUOTE]
Probably because they don’t suffer from the ego-fantasy that they can solve every problem in the world by sheer determination or their innate superiority. In other words, they don’t try because they know that it can’t be done; the only people who can negotiate a settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians are the Israelis and the Palestinians.
[QUOTE=Cisco]
Wait, you’re pitting him for trying to do something good and your only reasoning is that you don’t think he’ll be able to pull it off? And the chorus rejoices! Jesus, even I’m getting sick of Bush-bashing, and I never dreamed of voting for the man.
[/QUOTE]
I had read BG’s OP as pitting Bush because he doesn’t think he is actually trying to do something good - only trying to give the world that impression.
[QUOTE=LilShieste]
I had read BG’s OP as pitting Bush because he doesn’t think he is actually trying to do something good - only trying to give the world that impression.
[/QUOTE]
No, I’m Pitting him because, IMO, he’s so clueless he really thinks he can salvage his legacy this way, after spending his whole administration making it impossible for him to do it.