# Bush thinks only Christians should be president **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460 "2005-01-12T23:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/81 "2005-01-13T06:25:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > And apparently I am being roundly assailed for being offended by it. Do I not get to express my anger? Certainly, express it all you want. It’s just misplaced in my opinion. > [@treis](#): > > Has it occured to you a Christian perspective may be offensive to others? It has occurred to me that it _shouldn’t_ be offensive to others. Are we not supposed to be able to express our religious beliefs freely and without unreasonable constraint in this country? I don’t get offended when Muhammad Ali, whom I regard highly, speaks of his Muslim faith. I don’t get offended when my mother, who has adopted the Hindu faith, speaks of it. Why is it all of a sudden cause for high dudgeon when someone expresses their Christian beliefs? I could get offended over your screen name. Would that make my taking offense legitimate? > [@treis](#): > > Did it occur to you that some of us are able to get by without having to rely on the ‘Lord’s’ help and perhaps we don’t like our hard work to be seen as some blessing from above? You are reading way too much into either what I’ve said or what GWB said. No one is speaking of your hard work (or even your life) at all. > [@treis](#): > > Hello? Did you bother to read why we were offended or was this a pre-programmed rant? Again, people in this country (and all around the world, for that matter) decide for themselves what is offensive. The simple fact that you decide to take offense at something is not sufficient grounds for it to be silenced. There is no Consitutional right to freedom from offense. If no one could say anything that someone somewhere might take offense at, to speak at all would be impossible. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/82 "2005-01-13T06:36:03Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > It has occurred to me that it _shouldn’t_ be offensive to others. Are we not supposed to be able to express our religious beliefs freely and without unreasonable constraint in this country? I don’t get offended when Muhammad Ali, whom I regard highly, speaks of his Muslim faith. I don’t get offended when my mother, who has adopted the Hindu faith, speaks of it. Why is it all of a sudden cause for high dudgeon when someone expresses their Christian beliefs? Neither do I. Bush’s comment really isn’t that offensive in the grand scheme of things but it touches on a raw nerve for a lot of people (including me). It annoys me when someone tells me that all I need is ‘faith in the Lord’ or tells me that I should ‘thank the Lord for my blessings’. It in my opinion devalues the hard work that I have put into my accomplishments (small as they may be). > [@Starving Artist](#): > > There is no Consitutional right to freedom from offense. If no one could say anything that someone somewhere might take offense at, to speak at all would be impossible. I never said nor implied that there was. Its not exactly a surprise that atheists take offense at a lot of religious comments. The problem I have with Bush’s comments is that he thinks that my atheism is somehow a handicap or a detriment to me. He may not believe it but atheists can cope with stress and hardship just as well as theists. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/83 "2005-01-13T06:51:18Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > It has occurred to me that it _shouldn’t_ be offensive to others. Are we not supposed to be able to express our religious beliefs freely and without unreasonable constraint in this country? He’s free to express whatever he likes (and incidentally, I am EXTREMELY tired of being accused of wanting to restrict others’ freedom of speech when I complain about what they have to say). But certainly, religious opinions of Christians can be deeply offensive to others. Nine-tenths of what certain Christians say about me, for example, straddle the line between offensive and comical. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/84 "2005-01-13T07:06:06Z")
> [@treis](#): > > FinnAgain said that my belief that summarizing a persons statements without using quotation marks is editorialization and bullshit. > > Its an accurate statement of what you said without quoting you. Actually, it’s not. I called bullshit on claiming that an ediorialization devoid of direction quotation is necessarily (or should be assumed to be) factual . Not that summarization without quotes is in and of itself bullshit. See, pays to be careful with how you represent text, and suspicious of those who try to summarize another’s words. Nuance and personal meaning are too easy to get lost. > [@treis](#): > > It would be easy to directly quote you becuase you aren’t talking at length about this topic. In an interview setting it may be harder to get a direct quote that sums up what a person is saying. Having been an English major and done a tiny bit of journalism, I know it’s possible to string together a series of shorter quotes to get at a larger picture or prove a point. It’s also possible to refrence an entire block of text and then editorialize. > [@treis](#): > > I disagree. The reporter isn’t interpeting Bush’s quotes he is providing an accurate representation of what Bush said without a direct quote. See my example above. I did see your example 😉 Any act of representation is an act of interpretation, however slight. > [@treis](#): > > _shrug_ its pretty clear to me at least that you are mistaken but you are right the point is that Bush is an asshat. So we can agree to interpret his remarks differently, but that he’s an assclown in any case. Deal 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/85 "2005-01-13T07:11:21Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Bush’s comment really isn’t that offensive in the grand scheme of things but it touches on a raw nerve for a lot of people (including me). It annoys me when someone tells me that all I need is ‘faith in the Lord’ or tells me that I should ‘thank the Lord for my blessings’. It in my opinion devalues the hard work that I have put into my accomplishments (small as they may be). But don’t you see, that isn’t what Bush was doing. Again, I think you (and to a much larger degree, FinnAgain) are reading way too much into what Bush both said and meant. > [@treis](#): > > I never said nor implied that there was. Its not exactly a surprise that atheists take offense at a lot of religious comments. The problem I have with Bush’s comments is that he thinks that my atheism is somehow a handicap or a detriment to me. He may not believe it but atheists can cope with stress and hardship just as well as theists. Frankly, I don’t believe Bush was giving atheists a thought when he made his remarks. He was merely expressing his gratitude that he had his faith to support him in dealing with all the pressures and problems he has to confront in his presidency. He wasn’t saying no one _could_ deal with these pressures and problems without that faith, only that he couldn’t understand how. I don’t understand how people can live happily on the banks of the Amazon living in mud huts and eating fish all the time. But the fact that I can’t understand how they could be happy doesn’t I don’t believe they are. I hope you can see the similarity in my rather poor analogy. The point is, Bush’s gratitude toward his own Christian faith does not automatically equate to a condemnation of other faiths or atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/86 "2005-01-13T08:22:22Z")
treis’ extended quote actually makes it a bit worse. One of things that makes us different from the Taliban is that we don’t force religious views on people. ON THE OTHER HAND he doesn’t see. What is this “other hand” business? The Taliban are evil, on the other hand, they have the right idea when it comes to leadership? I don’t think this is a particularly bad statement. Bush clearly does respect the right of non-Christians to exist and be patriots in America, and he can say it and I’ve several times on this board given him credit for it (even Democratic Presidents have avoided such language). But he does seem to hold to the idea that people without religious belief are missing a crucial support necessary to be good people and good leaders. It’s not a very uncommon or surprising view, really. Even Jimmy Carter probably would agree, though he probably wouldn’t come out and say it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/87 "2005-01-13T08:47:41Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > But don’t you see, that isn’t what Bush was doing. Again, I think you (and to a much larger degree, FinnAgain) are reading way too much into what Bush both said and meant. It’s possible, I’ve had people tell me that I over analyze things 😃 For what it’s worth, I believe my interpretation, while quite possibly wrong, is in accord with what I know about the man. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/88 "2005-01-13T08:54:38Z")
Yet another thread started and maintained by those who have nothing better to do than focus on minutae. The man expressed his personal views regarding himself-the same as you and I are free to do, but because he is someone you don’t care for, it’s time to exhume the bleached white bones for another beating of a horse so long dead it’s name is forgotten. I can’t imagine how folks could live in a house without working smoke detectors. Am I making a disparaging comment about those who live without such inexpensive protection? Is that a class-based castigation of the less-fortunate? Of course not. Please stick to pitting things which have substance and reality, and stop the fapping while you pore over the latest news in search of a crumb you’d like to have viewed as a whole cake. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/89 "2005-01-13T08:57:38Z")
I can’t imagine how anyone could hold down a real job without a penis. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/90 "2005-01-13T09:01:07Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Yet another thread started and maintained by those who have nothing better to do than focus on minutae. I’m an academic, minutae is mah bread and butter 🙂 > [@danceswithcats](#): > > The man expressed his personal views regarding himself-the same as you and I are free to do, but because he is someone you don’t care for, it’s time to exhume the bleached white bones for another beating of a horse so long dead it’s name is forgotten. If someone who you don’t like says something you don’t like, you’re not supposed to bitch about it, in the Pit none the less? > [@danceswithcats](#): > > I can’t imagine how folks could live in a house without working smoke detectors. Am I making a disparaging comment about those who live without such inexpensive protection? Is that a class-based castigation of the less-fortunate? Of course not. I don’t see how someone could be president =/= I don’t see how someone can not have smoke detectors. If, for insance, I said “I don’t see how any theist could possibly do my job.” I’d be slighting theists. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/91 "2005-01-13T09:03:26Z")
**Apos** : I tip my hat to you. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/92 "2005-01-13T09:41:02Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > If someone who you don’t like says something you don’t like, you’re not supposed to bitch about it, in the Pit none the less? A full time job, already? > [@](#): > > I don’t see how someone could be president =/= I don’t see how someone can not have smoke detectors. They are both viewpoints, opinions of the party speaking. > [@](#): > > If, for insance, I said “I don’t see how any theist could possibly do my job.” I’d be slighting theists. Bull. You’d be stating your opinion, to which you’re entitled, no differently than if you said “I don’t see how a 40-something guy could possibly be an effective firefighter.” I’m not slighted. You’re entitled to that opinion, however misguided it may be, because being misguided and confused is your prerogative. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/93 "2005-01-13T09:48:15Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > A full time job, already? You offering to hire me? I get paid by the word. 😃 > [@danceswithcats](#): > > They are both viewpoints, opinions of the party speaking. I know they’re viewpoints. But viewpoints can be obnoxious quite easily. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > Bull. You’d be stating your opinion, to which you’re entitled, Um… when did I not say I’d be stating my opinion, or entitled to state my opinion? I’m simply saying that if I held the opinion that “No Christian could possibly do my work, because their stupid faith would get in the way.” Well, that might, just might, be offensive to some Christians. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > no differently than if you said “I don’t see how a 40-something guy could possibly be an effective firefighter.” Although the analogy is not isomorphic with Bush’s quote, it would still mean that I was passing judgement on the capabilities of a group of people. Further, as I pointed out earlier, Bush didn’t say “be an effective…” he simply said “be…” The difference in connotation is massive. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > I’m not slighted. You’re entitled to that opinion, however misguided it may be, because being misguided and confused is your prerogative. Where have I said it isn’t my perogative? ~baffled~ Being entitled to an opinion doesn’t make it right (as you’ve pretty much just said) nor does something being an opinion make it not assholeish. Or, to use the example which was already given “I don’t see how anybody without a penis could possibly do a good job.” ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/94 "2005-01-13T10:05:47Z")
> [@](#): > > In the words of probably the greatest president of the last century, Ronald Reagan: “There you go again!” You just lost all credibility with me. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/95 "2005-01-13T10:08:50Z")
C’est la vie, **LouisB**. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/96 "2005-01-13T11:04:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Jefferson and Lincoln both specifically rejected Christianity, and guess what… “That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular. […snip…] I do not think I could myself, be brought to support a man for office, whom I knew to be an open enemy of, and scoffer at, religion.” — Abraham Lincoln, [Handbill Replying to Charges of Infidelity](http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=753), 31 July, 1846 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/97 "2005-01-13T11:23:15Z")
So Lincoln was as much of a smuck about this as Bush then. Cool. Maybe it’s just a GOP thing then 😉 Is this the whole atheists have no moral centre shite again? Or is it that he thinks the leader of the US needs help from god to do the job correctly? Unfortunately I’d guess a very large number of theists would share this stupid and ignorant view of people who don’t worship The Lord. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/98 "2005-01-13T11:30:37Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > C’est la vie, **LouisB**. Didn’t we have a thread here some time ago that pointed out that the statement Reagan was whining about (“there you go again”) was actually correct? If you’re going to mention Reagan as the greatest President of the century (hoo boy, that was fun to type), you should’ve probably picked a better quote. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/99 "2005-01-13T11:51:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > One of GeeDubya’s big problems is that he sees himself as a straight-forward, no-nonsense kind of guy, which is OK, but he is also an utterly inarticulate kind of guy. Very apt and very funny! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460/100 "2005-01-13T14:14:45Z")
Count me amongst those who have no idea what all the brouhaha is about in this thread, except, it seems, for some of the usual posters to do their usual political advertising. Re: Mr. Bush, if he really believes God is helping him make Presidential decisions, either he hasn’t been listening very carefully or God is an even bigger schmuck than GWB is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-thinks-only-christians-should-be-president/284460.md?page=6)