# Bush to announce manned moon mission another fine example of bait and switch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551 "2004-01-09T02:00:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/61 "2004-01-09T17:05:53Z")
Anyone else find this scary? (from [here](http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st%2Fsn%2F01080002aaa05132.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=LATEBRKN&Type=News&Filter=Late%20Breaking)) > [@](#): > > Sources said Bush will direct NASA to scale back or scrap all existing programs that do not support the new effort. I sure hope they meant all existing _manned space flight_programs. Cutting back on the scientific programs will be a big mistake. (And not just because I’ll most likely lose my job as a result!) ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/62 "2004-01-09T17:15:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Neurotik_ > Goddam it, can this president stop **wasting _my_ fucking money** please? Between Iraq, tax cuts, missile defense, and now this nonsense I find myself closer and closer to the tax evader lunacy. Typical liberal mindset. Removing a dangerous murderer from power is a waste of money. Tax cuts (also known as giving people their own money back) are wasting _your_ money. Missile defense to protect the country from terrorists and other loonies with missiles is a waste of money. But pumping money into the public school system (in which we already spend more dollar per child than private schools and with worse results) is _not_ a waste of money. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/63 "2004-01-09T17:46:07Z")
Back when Europeans were going west and discovering the new world, they had visions of finding gold and riches. They didn’t. Instead, it was richness of opportunity. People moved out of the oppressive regimes they had endured all their lives and developed something new, that eventually led to a world power. Outer space colonization may not may not be too profitable for our planet in the short run, but centuries from now we could have a new system of governments that will save us from ourselves. My question is how are we going to shield ourselves from radiation? Those who fly on extended voyages are going to be infested with so many millrads of radiation poisoning, they’ll be dead of cancer years before they get to where they’re going. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/64 "2004-01-09T18:48:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Psycho Pirate \* > **Typical liberal mindset.** Listen, you stupid fucking shit, I’m not a liberal. > [@](#): > > **Removing a dangerous murderer from power is a waste of money.** Yes, it was. And it continues to be a waste of money and a giveaway to Bush cronies. How much of my money was given to Halliburton so it could overcharge the government? Remind me again how Hussein was a threat to the US? Was it the non-existent terrorist ties? The non-existent weapons of mass destruction? You stupid fuck. > [@](#): > > **Tax cuts (also known as giving people their own money back) are wasting _your_ money.** When I’m going to be the one to have to have my taxes raised in the future to pay off stupid Republican spending and crony givebacks, then yes, it is wasting my money. > [@](#): > > **Missile defense to protect the country from terrorists and other loonies with missiles is a waste of money.** Yes, because ICBMs has been the chosen method for terrorists to attack countries. Why, Israel has all sorts of problems with Hamas strapping ICBMs onto their bodies and launching them from the West Bank. And it was ICBMs that blew up the Cole, the embassies, the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the Murrah Building, the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the Bali nightclub, et fucking cetera. You dumb fuck. > [@](#): > > \*\*But pumping money into the public school system (in which we already spend more dollar per child than private schools and with worse results) is _not_ a waste of money. \*\* Exactly right. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/65 "2004-01-09T19:52:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*But we have to get off the planet and became a spacefaring race. Our security and future as a species are out there, not here. \*\* Especially if we keep treating the planet like we have been. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/66 "2004-01-09T20:08:32Z")
**duffer** , you do recall that Senator Byrd, Ranking Member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, was locked out of his own conference deliberations this year by the Republican majority, don’t you? Republicans were also good enough to not invite the Democrats into final deliberations over the Energy bill, which is why Senate Democrats filibustered the ever lovin’ shit out of it, and which is why they may vote against invoking cloture on the omnibus appropriations bill when they return in a couple of weeks. Some [$23 billion](http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/12/reich-r-12-24.html), coincidentally very close to NASA’s total budget, went primarily to Republican pork-barrel projects. The not-so-fun part of being a tyrranical majority is that you also get to take responsibility for everything you fuck up. So you can take a big old bite of that shit sandwich right now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/67 "2004-01-09T20:12:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by duffer \* > \*\* > Romantic stabs at stars? That is exactly what the elite said about expeditions to the “New World”. A stepping stone is nothing to scoff at. It’s what humans have dreamed of for Millennia. \*\* No, that’s not at all how the rulers of Europe saw expeditions to the new world. Columbus got funding because he pitched a radical new trade route to the Spice Islands. If he’d been right there would have been an immediate and very lucrative feedback. Other expeditions were searches for other trade routes (the fictional Northwest Passage), blatant treasure hunts (Ponce DeLeon in Florida), or just religious fanatics trying to escape persecution. All had very immediate and obvious real-world benefits. The flinty-nosed monarchs of the 15th and 16th centuries would have laughed their heads off at the romantic day-dreams in this thread. You want humanity to colonize other planets some day? Great, then push for more funding for more basic physics research. We need stronger materials, more concentrated sources of energy, a better understanding of how the universe works. Stone-age Europeans didn’t colonize the New World by paddling their dugout canoes further and further from shore. They did it by building a technological infrastruction that could support long-range sailing ships. And we should be doing the same. But more manned missions right now? It’s an expensive stunt, not a real step toward long-term colonization of space. It’s just NASA masturbating on camera for the fanboys. And worse, Bush plans to pay for it by cutting all NASA programs that don’t contribute directly to the manned program. Which means bye-bye to lots of cool and useful research. Of course, I don’t expect Bush to really do it. The man’s got a history of talking big and then wimping out when he actually has to spend money. No Child Left Behind? Economic aid for New York after 9/11? AIDS Relief in Africa? Rebuilding Afghanistan? He’s just a blowhard who likes to grab headlines with big promises then quietly let them wither on the vine when he doesn’t think anyone is paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/68 "2004-01-09T20:15:15Z")
Neurotik, > [@](#): > > I’m not a liberal. I never said you were a liberal. Just that your views were typical of a liberal mindset. > [@](#): > > Remind me again how Hussein was a threat to the US? I never said that Hussein was a threat to the US. Just that he was a dangerous murderer. > [@](#): > > When I’m going to be the one to have to have my taxes raised in the future to pay off stupid Republican spending and crony givebacks, then yes, it is wasting my money. As far as your taxes being raised, Bush has spent the first four years of his administration cutting taxes. I bet he won’t significantly raise them during the next four years either. And how do you think I feel that planned abortion, er parenthood gets my money? > [@](#): > > Yes, because ICBMs has been the chosen method for terrorists to attack countries. People build missiles for two reasons: to either threaten to use them or to actually use them. Thank God nobody has attacked us with an ICBM yet. But if they did, and we had no defense, we would be in serious trouble. > [@](#): > > Exactly right. Exactly wrong [http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard//pubs/main1999/2000469.asp](http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard//pubs/main1999/2000469.asp) Not exactly an extreme increase in test scores to go along with the extreme increases in public school funding. Math has shown the most improvement, but Reading and Science are either barely statistically significant, or not at all. And go ahead and curse at me if it makes you happy. It is the language of the ignorant, and only makes you appear as such. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/69 "2004-01-09T20:16:28Z")
Oh, sure, **Sofa King** , very impressive that you can cite something to prove your point. [ANYONE](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234060) can do that – do you think it makes you a big man or something? Once we get our house in some semblance of order, I really hope we can head into space. Not before. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/70 "2004-01-09T20:17:56Z")
Sorry, I need to correct myself. NASA’s budget has actually been hovering in the $13-15 billion dollar range since the early 1990s, according to my budget records. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/71 "2004-01-09T20:32:20Z")
Well shoot, **Left Hand**. Fuckin’ Iowa is getting a $50 million four and a half acre indoor rain forest. I’d say our house is pretty damned sqared away–as far as the terrarium goes, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/72 "2004-01-09T20:41:07Z")
Woah! In that case, I retract my point. To the moon! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/73 "2004-01-09T20:46:18Z")
[I apologize for the possible double post]. I’m more or less with **Dorkness** , at least in my initial reaction. I think it would be so cool, but doubt that we can afford it now. On second thought, though, maybe it isn’t so far fetched after all. Think of it this way. Just about any time you hear engineers and rocket scientists explaining the basics of space travel, they always tell you that the hardest part is overcoming the Earth’s gravity and getting into orbit. Once there, it takes far less fuel to send the same payload to the moon, and maybe even Mars. With that in mind, it’s disheartening to note that the entire world effort towards human space travel, in the last 30 years, has been limited to putting heavy objects in Earth orbit. Surely we can do better. Instead of having mission specialists cooling their heels in low earth orbit for three months, why not have some of them spending three months on the moon? It seems to me that this would do a lot more for the cause of science. I don’t know about the whole Mars thing, though. I think we have many more technical problems that must be overcome before we can think about that. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/74 "2004-01-09T21:32:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Windwalker \* > \*\*Will we, in 50 years time, wish we had not wasted so many resources in a romantic stab at the stars, and instead invested it here, where it may have helped prevent some catastrophe that befell our species (which caused us to abandon the space program before any ground-breaking benefit was found)? Or will we be thanking the lucky stars that we were ballsy enough to devote so much to an iffy bet? > > I wonder.\*\* Hindsight is always 20/20. Still, I think this is something we should explore. And to those who are saying we should “get our own house in order” before we venture out into space…is that _ **ever** _ going to happen? Not in our lifetime, and probably not in our grandchildren’s lifetime, either. There will always be things popping up which need immediate attention which would distract from space exploration. We’ll find a way to pay for it. We always do. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/75 "2004-01-09T21:46:23Z")
money…money…money. Does anyone honestly think that by NOT going to the Moon life here on earth will somehow magically become better?? Using money as an excuse to not push the boundaries of mankinds limits is shortsighted and foolish. We should have never LEFT the damn moon. The manned program was stopped in what…73-74? Did the country go thru an economic boom the next year?? Not that im aware of! I cant stand GW, but if he could actually commit to this, I might consider sending my vote his way. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/76 "2004-01-09T22:05:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TartPops \* > \*\*Unlike you, Ilsa dear, I never pull things out of my ass, I Have cites to back them up. > > The figure in question is $450 billion and I came across it while reading Bill Bryson’s new book A Short History of Nearly everything. > > Judging from Bryson’s endnotes, the primary source for the monetary figure is a New Yorker article entitled "medicine on Mars, in the February 14, 200 issue on page 39. > > Now, the New Yorker is renowned for their fact checking, sowhy don’t you go back to eating whatever it is that you’ve pulled out of your ass **this** time and leave the debunking and trashtalking to the experts. > > Schmuck \*\* Oh, the irony. I’d pull some smiley art out, but I don’t feel like pissing **WorldEater** off. So you never pull things out of your ass, eh? Other than your political philosphy?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/77 "2004-01-09T22:06:31Z")
**Lord Ashtar** , I know our house will never be entirely in order. Had we been pushing to the moon in the mid-nineties, however, when the economy was booming, it would’ve made more sense. Things are especially _out_ of order right now; that’s why I don’t see doing it now. It’s also pretty ironic that this laudable but expensive plan is being proposed by the same guy that slashed the government’s income. You’d think, were you an idealistic fool, that he would at least have the integrity to mention how much it’s going to cost and how he’s going to pay for it. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/78 "2004-01-09T22:12:06Z")
I’m not even sure its going to cost anything right now. Say they retire the shuttles in 2-3 years. At that point about $4 billion dollars gets freed up. How’s that for already committed fund for this new project? ---
**Author:** ![TartPops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TartPops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TartPops)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/79 "2004-01-09T23:23:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ilsa\_Lund \* > \*\*Oh, the irony. I’d pull some smiley art out, but I don’t feel like pissing **WorldEater** off. > > So you never pull things out of your ass, eh? Other than your political philosphy?:rolleyes: \*\* And the point of this post was…what exactly? Wait, I know the answer. There isn’t one. You just can’t face up to the fact that your earlier statement about my pulling facts out of my ass has been exposed for the utter lie that it is. If you had the maturity level of even a 14 year old you would admit that you lied and possibly even apologize, but I bet that’ll never happen. And my political philosophy comes from a number of sources, one of which is a careful reading of various newspapers and another a great deal of reading of history. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551/80 "2004-01-09T23:53:21Z")
Hey, **Tardpops** , don’t you have the minerals to show up to your [own Pitting?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234014) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-announce-manned-moon-mission-another-fine-example-of-bait-and-switch/223551.md?page=5)