# Bush to Baghdad troops: "Here's a nice turkey for you to look at." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979 "2003-12-04T17:53:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/41 "2003-12-05T05:12:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Finagle \* > You know, if folks want to nail Bush over his spending and economic policies, I’m behind you 100%. If you want to critique his environmental policy or his pandering to energy interests, then I’m there. If you think his invasion of Iraq was misguided, the motivations baffling, and the restoration poorly planned, I can concede that you may have some valid points. > > But if you continually harp on the man for taking advantage of photo ops and performing symbolic gestures \* which is one of his jobs \*, then I’m going to decide that you’re just cynical lightweights who are more interested in exercising your knees than your brains. Quite. Ironically, a _somewhat_ more relevant fabrication is buried midway into the article linked in the OP: > [@](#): > > The White House has updated its account of an airborne conversation in which a British Airways pilot wondered into his radio if he had just seen Air Force One and was told that it was a Gulfstream 5, a much smaller plane. White House officials first said that the British Airways pilot had talked with the Air Force One pilot. Bush aides now say the conversation occurred between the British Airways pilot and an air traffic control worker. > > “I don’t think everybody was clear on exactly how that conversation happened,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. > > British Airways said it has been unable to confirm the new version. “We’ve looked into it,” a spokeswoman said from London. “It didn’t happen.” Emphasis added. So it appears that someone in the White House created a story out of whole cloth. The fact that it was demonstrably false appears not to faze them. After all, > [@](#): > > White House officials do not deny that they craft elaborate events to showcase Bush, but they maintain that these events are designed to accurately dramatize his policies and to convey qualities about him that are real. > > “This was effective, because it captured something about the president that people know is true, that he really cares about the soldiers and gets emotional when he sees them,” Mary Matalin, a former administration official, said about the trip to Baghdad. “You have to figure out how to capture the Bush we know, even if it doesn’t come through in a speech situation or a press conference. He regularly rejects anything that is not him.” Like a TV docudrama, these stories serve a higher truth about W: _he cares!_. It is now confirmed: post-modernists have taken over the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/42 "2003-12-05T05:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*[No, he didn’t.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031130/ap_on_re_us/lincoln_fakes_glance_1) \*\* Why do you Hate America? 😉 BTW -nice cite! ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/43 "2003-12-05T05:52:00Z")
[Here’s a better version of the Lincoln article.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031130/ap_on_re_us/lincoln_fakes_1) ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/44 "2003-12-05T06:01:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flowbark \* > \*\*Quite. > > Ironically, a _somewhat_ more relevant fabrication is buried midway into the article linked in the OP: Emphasis added. So it appears that someone in the White House created a story out of whole cloth. The fact that it was demonstrably false appears not to faze them. After all, Like a TV docudrama, these stories serve a higher truth about W: _he cares!_. It is now confirmed: post-modernists have taken over the White House. \*\* You’re a bit behind, flowbark. Reeder already ranted about this. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=226845&perpage=50&pagenumber=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=226845&perpage=50&pagenumber=1) The fact that it was Reeder who did so should tell you all you need to know about the significance of the story. Basically, there’s no proof that it didn’t happen – about all you can say is that the BA pilot who it happened to hasn’t reported it to the BA front office. In short, more petty bullshit from people who’d rather take cheap shots than actually spend some time digging up real stories and doing real analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/45 "2003-12-05T07:10:13Z")
**Finagle** : Well the fact that I read through your link only shows what a glutton for punishment I am. (Ok, I skimmed the end.) To complete the record, here’s the 2nd update from AP: > [@](#): > > He said the pilot of the British Airways plane radioed the tower in London and reported the apparent sighting of Air Force One. The tower, apparently relying on phony flight-plan information filed to protect Air Force One’s identity, radioed back that it was a Gulfstream Five, a much smaller plane. > > Bartlett said he had left the wrong impression Thursday that the conversation had taken place between the British Airways pilot and the pilot of Air Force One, Col. Mark Tillman. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=2&u=/ap/20031202/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_baghdad\_1](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=2&u=/ap/20031202/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_baghdad_1) 1. So there _appears_ to be no “quick-thinking” involved on the part of any Air Force One pilot. My “whole cloth” claim has to be retracted; I’m still unclear about exactly how and why the heroics were manufactured. and (more to the point) 1. I can’t believe I’ve pulled myself into this barely relevant Shmooz Story. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/46 "2003-12-05T07:13:55Z")
Well, if you’d bother to **actually read the thread you just cited** , you’d see that the WHITE HOUSE has admitted that the plane involved in the radio transmission to the NATS control tower (not AF-1) was not a British Airways plane. Where the hell do you come off claiming a superior channel to truth based upon your dislike of a single poster? ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/47 "2003-12-05T07:17:26Z")
Sorry, **RT**. I just don’t see the humor in this situation that you do, but I’ll take your word for it. But I still have to ask, if you posted this just because you thought it was funny then why put it in the Pit and not MPSIMS? **Dantheman** , it’s not like he dropped by Ft. Meade on his way to Camp David, he flew halfway around he world and risked his life (at least a little) to spend Thanksgiving with the troops. Although I have little doubt that the primary motivation for his trip was political and I’m sure more than a few troops are aware of that it’s still possible for it to be seen as a gesture of appreciation to the troops. I don’t know, maybe I’m just not looking at it the same way you are. I certainly don’t believe that the troops wouldn’t express disapproval if they felt it. Even if it were reasonable that they were told they couldn’t make negative comments about the President’s visit, which is doubtful because some of them have made negative comments about being in Iraq with no known ill effect, all they’d have to do is insist that they be left anonymous. There are a lot of troops in Iraq and it’d be hard to pin down the handful that were quoted in a newspaper if you don’t know their names. And as for the AF1 story that some people have decided to bleed over into this thread, ahem, cite? I mean proof that we know it was planning and not incompetence behind the claim that AF1 was spotted. Because, really, it’s impressive enough that he actually went to Iraq, why would they even need to spruce that up? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/48 "2003-12-05T07:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. I can’t believe I’ve pulled myself into this barely relevant Shmooz Story. You’re not alone, but _some people_ seem to think it’s treasonous, even mentioning oddities like this. That rather requires that the incidents be subjected to a detailed discussion. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/49 "2003-12-05T08:41:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asylum \* > **Dantheman** , it’s not like he dropped by Ft. Meade on his way to Camp David, he flew halfway around he world and risked his life (at least a little) to spend Thanksgiving with the troops. The cynic in me replies, “He flew halfway around the world and risked his life (at least a little) to take some photos for next year’s re-election campaign.” > [@](#): > > I certainly don’t believe that the troops wouldn’t express disapproval if they felt it. Yeah, right. Doubtless the troops who crabbed about being Iraq to an ABC reporter just a few months ago and ended up [getting busted from the Pentagon](http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/001550.php) could testify to that. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/50 "2003-12-05T12:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asylum \* > \*\ ***Dantheman** , it’s not like he dropped by Ft. Meade on his way to Camp David, he flew halfway around he world and risked his life (at least a little) to spend Thanksgiving with the troops. Although I have little doubt that the primary motivation for his trip was political and I’m sure more than a few troops are aware of that it’s still possible for it to be seen as a gesture of appreciation to the troops. I don’t know, maybe I’m just not looking at it the same way you are. > \*\* First, it was a stupidly dangerous move. Any terrorist could have been already waiting at that airport, ready to take down ANY plane that happened by. It’s a war zone, after all. Profoundly stupid move. And for what? To reassure the troops for 2.5 hours? Are you serious? Sure, he risked his life. That doesn’t make him particularly noble, and it certainly doesn’t make him more noble than those troops. I’m sure they would have seen it as a gesture of appreciation if he’d been there for more than a few photo-ops. His handlers meant for it to look assuring to the troops. They’re simply trying to maximize their boy’s chances of reelection. This isn’t really all that trivial. They just spent tons of taxpayer money to schlep him over to a war zone for a photo-op. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/51 "2003-12-05T14:48:46Z")
Have you ever been to a catered buffet for several hundred people? Steam trays are **fast** , they’re **safer** because the meat stays hot, but they’re not very **pretty**. Solution? Buy a low-end, cheap, small turkey, garnish it with a bunch of stale vegetables, primp it until it’s beautiful, and place it next to the steam tray with turkey meat. It’s the same as the photo on the TV dinner box–they never come out looking like that! You would rather see a picture of our President standing behind a buffet line like a cafeteria lady? Okay, actually, so would I. But if Karl Rove has a brain in his head, he knows that Bush isn’t getting my vote. He’s worried about Joe Sixpack’s vote. And Joe Sixpack doesn’t want a President who looks like a lunch lady. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/52 "2003-12-05T15:01:51Z")
Actually, **Jurph** , there are several pictures of Bush doing a Lunchlady Doris on the regular steam-table chow line. [Here’s one](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031127.html) on the White House website itself!! Tempest in a teapot. He picked up the pretty-looking prop turkey and posed with it for a sec until he did his stint as Doris. BIG FUCKING DEAL. As a Dem myself, petty shit like this is going to erode the support of the fence-sitters. They’re not going to think less of the Pres. They’re going to think less of the shit flingers. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/53 "2003-12-05T15:12:53Z")
**Mehitabel** - I agree that it’s overall much ado about nothing, certainly when compared to other issues during his presidency. If this were the biggest controversy his administration had faced to this point, I’d say his reelection chances would be nearly 100%. So yes, in comparison with other stuff, it’s a moot point. I’m not so sure that fence sitters will think less of the flingers than the flingees, because one can sit on a fence and lean one way or the other. The story might give some fence sitters pause. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/54 "2003-12-05T15:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > **Tempest in a teapot. He picked up the pretty-looking prop turkey and posed with it for a sec until he did his stint as Doris. BIG FUCKING DEAL.** You said it. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by dantheman_ > **I’m not so sure that fence sitters will think less of the flingers than the flingees, because one can sit on a fence and lean one way or the other. The story might give some fence sitters pause.** And it’ll make others think you’re complete loons. I don’t like Bush, but listening to you guys makes me wanna. Who do you like on the democratic side, by the way? Who do you think has a chance? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/55 "2003-12-05T15:47:01Z")
Why would the fence sitters care what others think? If they cared, they would be on one side or the other, wouldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/56 "2003-12-05T16:02:28Z")
? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/57 "2003-12-05T19:23:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Solution? Buy a low-end, cheap, small turkey, garnish it with a bunch of stale vegetables, primp it until it’s beautiful, and place it next to the steam tray with turkey meat. It’s the same as the photo on the TV dinner box–they never come out looking like that! \But dat WASTIIING!\ ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/58 "2003-12-05T19:30:17Z")
If anyone is _still_ sitting on the fence after everything the adminstration has done has been exposed, discussed, analyzed, and shelved due to boredom, a bit of character assassination probably isn’t going to tip the balance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/59 "2003-12-05T20:45:10Z")
Bush vs Dean? Dean! Bush vs Kerry? Kerry! Bush vs Clarke Clarke! Bush vs Kucinich well, gee, Kucinich. I guess. Bush vs Lieberman (uuuurrp! baaaarf! violent upchuck!) Lieberman, may God have mercy on my soul Bush vs Sharpton “Oh, Canada…” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-baghdad-troops-heres-a-nice-turkey-for-you-to-look-at/216979/60 "2003-12-05T21:21:05Z")
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