# Bush to oversee investigation into his own #$%^up... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371 "2005-09-06T17:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/21 "2005-09-07T01:32:33Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Still doesn’t seem like a news article, but it does give me a bit more context. It seems that this “wall of separation” was due to privacy concerns about legal aliens, that may or may not have involved legal issues as well. The issue of privacy vs. safety is still being debated today, and I’m not going to hang Gorelick solely due to that. I haven’t said anything about “hanging” her, but would you agree that putting her on a commission directed to investigate where the intelligence community may have failed to ‘connect the dots’ was probably not the greatest idea? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/22 "2005-09-07T01:35:49Z")
You guys seem somewhat intelligent. So how difficult was it to completely hijack this thread back to the Clinton administration? Not very, huh? It’s like a magic trick. Practice it enough and the slight of hand becomes completely unnoticeable, even if the audience is astute enough to look for it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/23 "2005-09-07T01:41:14Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I haven’t said anything about “hanging” her, but would you agree that putting her on a commission directed to investigate where the intelligence community may have failed to ‘connect the dots’ was probably not the greatest idea? Sure I’ll agree, same as Bush heading up this investigation. It’s not a zero sum game. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/24 "2005-09-07T01:43:24Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I haven’t said anything about “hanging” her, but would you agree that putting her on a commission directed to investigate where the intelligence community may have failed to ‘connect the dots’ was probably not the greatest idea? No, I don’t think I’ll agree. If forming any commission of this sort, the people knowledgeable enough to sit on it are either going to have been involved, or have connections with those involved. Conflicts of interest are usually overwhelmed by the rest of the commission. I can’t imagine why, if Gorelick had any fault, the other members (many of whom are from the other party) would have protected her. I think that is the primary assumption here, and I don’t see any reason to buy it. Please note, I am not prejudging the administration’s investigation of itself, which is what you are tying this to. I’m willing to wait and see. There will certainly be other bipartisan investigations as well. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/25 "2005-09-07T01:50:07Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > No, I don’t think I’ll agree. If forming any commission of this sort, the people knowledgeable enough to sit on it are either going to have been involved, or have connections with those involved. Conflicts of interest are usually overwhelmed by the rest of the commission. I can’t imagine why, if Gorelick had any fault, the other members (many of whom are from the other party) would have protected her. I think that is the primary assumption here, and I don’t see any reason to buy it. > > Please note, I am not prejudging the administration’s investigation of itself, which is what you are tying this to. I’m willing to wait and see. There will certainly be other bipartisan investigations as well. You’re probably gonna hate yourself but I have no problem with anything you’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/26 "2005-09-07T01:54:13Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You’re probably gonna hate yourself but I have no problem with anything you’ve said. Actually, I meant about the Katrina investigation. I still have some serious problems about Gorelick on the 9/11 Commission. There was certainly a conflict of interest, at the least…and I think _she_ should have been answering some questions as opposed to asking them. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/27 "2005-09-07T01:54:42Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You’re probably gonna hate yourself but I have no problem with anything you’ve said. 😃 I’d like to mention that I think this is the best actual _discussion_ I’ve ever seen you take part in. See what can happen when you drop all the question marks and just talk? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/28 "2005-09-07T02:02:09Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > You guys seem somewhat intelligent. So how difficult was it to completely hijack this thread back to the Clinton administration? Not very, huh? It’s like a magic trick. Practice it enough and the slight of hand becomes completely unnoticeable, even if the audience is astute enough to look for it. I have to agree. I suspect the problem is that there’s no one who can defend Bush’ whitewash commission plan on its merits, so they go for the brightnshiny Clinton administration attack. But fellow Dopers, you need to learn to stay focussed. Swarming about like minnows every time somebody tosses in a little hijack bait … well, it doesn’t make you look smart. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/29 "2005-09-07T02:10:09Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I have to agree. I suspect the problem is that there’s no one who can defend Bush’ whitewash commission plan on its merits, so they go for the brightnshiny Clinton administration attack. But fellow Dopers, you need to learn to stay focussed. Swarming about like minnows every time somebody tosses in a little hijack bait … well, it doesn’t make you look smart. My post wasn’t intended as a “hijack.” I was making the point about conflicts-of-interest in government investigations. If Bush puts Michael Brown in charge of finding out what went wrong at FEMA I wouldn’t like it. I’m all for independent and bipartisan investigations. I happen to think Gorelick on the 9/11 Commission was a mistake, given what we’ve learned from ‘Able Danger.’ I will not mention Gorelick again in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/30 "2005-09-07T02:23:57Z")
Bush couldn’t get to the bottom of his own sock drawer. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/31 "2005-09-07T02:31:34Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Bush couldn’t get to the bottom of his own sock drawer. And why should he? He’s always had people to do that for him. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/32 "2005-09-07T02:50:37Z")
**World Eater** > [@](#): > > Sure I’ll agree, same as Bush heading up this investigation. It’s not a zero sum game. Sure, with Dubya’s mentality it wouldn’t be a zero sum game. It would be more like Parcheesi or Chutes and Ladders. Interesting to see that almost 4 years after Sept 11, 2001 we still aren’t prepared to deal with a catastrophe. To paraphrase another thread running at the moment, _I can’t believe Dubya didn’t see this coming._ Harry Truman had a sign on his desk “ **The Buck Stops Here** ”. Wouldn’t it be nice to see Dubya at least take _part_ of the blame? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/33 "2005-09-07T03:05:56Z")
I hate to piss on a good bush bash, but I just want to make sure that everyone here realizes that there is a lot of blame to go around and not all of it belongs to the feds. Cockups on this kind of scale aren’t just the fault of one group. It takes a whole group of morons at various levels to whip up this grand of a clusterfuck. I’m not saying that the administration won’t have their share, but lets not try to stop this buck on one desk. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/34 "2005-09-07T03:10:21Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I hate to piss on a good bush bash, but I just want to make sure that everyone here realizes that there is a lot of blame to go around and not all of it belongs to the feds. Cockups on this kind of scale aren’t just the fault of one group. It takes a whole group of morons at various levels to whip up this grand of a clusterfuck. > > I’m not saying that the administration won’t have their share, but lets not try to stop this buck on one desk. Yeah, but the governor and the mayor don’t get to run the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/35 "2005-09-07T03:28:51Z")
**HarborWolf** That’s why I qualified my remark by saying that Dubya should take _part_ of the blame. Believe it or not, I’ve been holding off on _really_ bashing Dubya on this one, because, as you’ve said, there’s _plenty_ of blame to go around. (Also, not all the facts are in - not by a long shot). Anyway, I appreciate your posting **HarborWolf** for reminding us all to keep things in perspective. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/36 "2005-09-07T03:43:35Z")
I must admit dismay in hearing that Dubya wants to oversee this. It would have been far better to have someone removed from his administration manage the matter, such as former NJ Governor Kean did regarding the 9/11 commission. Done this way, even if the findings are accurate, the left will gainsay the entirety of the document before lifting the cover. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/37 "2005-09-07T04:57:29Z")
> [@](#): > > **Biggirl** : I’m not saying that the administration won’t have their share, but lets not try to stop this buck on one desk. Truman chose to have the sign on his desk especially for those occasions when the blame could be spread in many directions. His attitude was that even when others screw up, _he_, and no other, was ultimately in charge and responsible. We can agree that there were failures on all levels and still admire that attitude. > [@](#): > > **Hyperelastic** : Bush couldn’t get to the bottom of his own sock drawer. > [@](#): > > **Hentor** : And why should he? He’s always had people to do that for him. Unfortunately, the person he appointed to do that for him was a color blind frat brothers recently fired from his job repairing mechanical bulls in bars. [Your federal appointees at work](http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20050906/431d1440_3421_1334520050906-1934077479) (excerpts) > [@](#): > > Brown’s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as “this **near** catastrophic event…”(bold type added) \ > [@](#): > > Brown said that among duties of these employees (1,000 HSD employees dispatched after 53 hours) was to “convey a positive image” about the government’s response for victims.(parenthetical added) \ > [@](#): > > Instead of rescuing people or recovering bodies, these employees would focus on helping victims “find the help they needed,” he said. \ > [@](#): > > The same day Brown wrote Chertoff, Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi **not** to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments. (bold type added) \ > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, the airline industry said the government’s request for help evacuating storm victims didn’t come until late Thursday afternoon. Maybe Bush will ask each department to evaluate how they could have done their jobs better. Why should the people have any confidence that this Administration or its appointments are capable of evaluating _anything_? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/38 "2005-09-07T05:06:35Z")
Betting he changes his mind. It was clearly a ploy in hopes of seizing control of the inevitable investigation. But Congress will proceed with its own investigation, Bush hasn’t the clout to stop them. And he can ill afford _dueling_ investigations, with one bringing forward facts the other might prefer to brush by lightly. He’s better off with a Congress investigation controlled by Republicans. He will gracefully withdraw the suggestion. And night after night, Karl Rover wakes up screaming… ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/39 "2005-09-07T05:22:26Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > I must admit dismay in hearing that Dubya wants to oversee this. \*\* It would have been far better to have someone removed from his administration manage the matter\*\*, such as former NJ Governor Kean did regarding the 9/11 commission. Done this way, even if the findings are accurate, the left will gainsay the entirety of the document before lifting the cover. I wonder if anyone would second Rudy Guiliani for the job. I would imagine that he would have a unique perspective to asking questions. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371/40 "2005-09-07T05:42:45Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’m not saying that the administration won’t have their share, but lets not try to stop this buck on one desk. [Sept 6 white house press conference](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050906-5.html) > [@](#): > > Q I just want to follow up on David’s questions on accountability. First, just to get you on the record, where does the buck stop in this administration? > > MR. McCLELLAN: The President. > > Q All right. So he will be held accountable as the head of the government for the federal response that he’s already acknowledged was inadequate and unacceptable? > > MR. McCLELLAN: The President’s most important responsibility is the safety and security of the American people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-to-oversee-investigation-into-his-own-up/320371.md?page=3)