# Bush voters with sons or daughters 18-25 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712 "2005-01-26T04:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/101 "2006-01-03T05:25:11Z")
Those crazy [Canucks](http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060101/w010152.html), what will they think of next? ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/102 "2006-01-03T05:34:09Z")
It’s all just a [game](http://www.kumagames.com/iranassault/overview.php) anyways. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/103 "2006-01-03T05:44:58Z")
Three whole years without US military action on Iranian soil? Hmm. I say we have 'em purple fingered in no time. (not really, they shouldn’t vote, just cooperate). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/104 "2006-01-03T11:40:51Z")
I’d like to reiterate - how can a Bush voter sign their adult children up for the military? It isn’t the decision of the parents to sign up? Parents can have an influence, but remember, this can cut both ways. My father was opposed at first to my choice to join the Navy. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/105 "2006-01-03T19:47:02Z")
I suspect **Bricker** gets invited to secret Republican meetings, and knows we won’t be invading Iran (he qualified the bet right off as Iran). Because he heard what country we’re _really_ invading. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/106 "2006-01-03T20:12:39Z")
Surprisingly enough (no, not really), [these folks](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050711/blumenthal) aren’t falling over themselves to sign up for Bush’s Glorious Crusade™ either. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/107 "2006-01-04T03:22:49Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Surprisingly enough (no, not really), [these folks](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050711/blumenthal) aren’t falling over themselves to sign up for Bush’s Glorious Crusade™ either. Why is that surprising? They’re college students, and unless they are ROTC members or members of a service academy, relatively few of them are considering the military as a career path. I’d be willing to bet the proportion would be even lower among College Democrats. More’s the pity, but there you go. Meantime, the military as a whole becomes more and more Republican in outlook, with George Bush winning a very clear majority of military votes in both elections. Democrats have helped to ensure a military that does not look like America by avoiding the military at a far greater rate. I don’t think that’s a healthy trend for the Democrats or the military, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/108 "2006-01-04T03:45:30Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why is that surprising? They’re college students, and unless they are ROTC members or members of a service academy, relatively few of them are considering the military as a career path. Yes, a sense of duty to country over personal ambition _would_ be inconvenient. > [@](#): > > I’d be willing to bet the proportion would be even lower among College Democrats. I’m quite certain you are mistaken. Now, if only one of us was industrious enough to support their claim… > [@](#): > > Democrats have helped to ensure a military that does not look like America by avoiding the military at a far greater rate. Really? I guess it just seems like the opposite is true because of so many high-profile Republican service dodgers: - Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage. - Dennis Hastert: did not serve. - Tom Delay: did not serve. - Roy Blunt: did not serve. - Bill Frist: did not serve. - Mitch McConnell: did not serve. - Rick Santorum: did not serve. - Trent Lott: did not serve. - John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business. - Jeb Bush: did not serve. - Karl Rove: did not serve. - Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. - Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve. - Vin Weber: did not serve. - Richard Perle: did not serve. - Douglas Feith: did not serve. - Eliot Abrams: did not serve. - Richard Shelby: did not serve. - Jon Kyl: did not serve. - Tim Hutchison: did not serve. - Christopher Cox: did not serve. - Newt Gingrich: did not serve. - Phil Gramm: did not serve. - Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve. - John M. McHugh: did not serve. - JC Watts: did not serve. - Jack Kemp: did not serve. - Rudy Giuliani: did not serve. - George Pataki: did not serve. - Spencer Abraham: did not serve. - John Engler: did not serve. > [@](#): > > Meantime, the military as a whole becomes more and more Republican in outlook, with George Bush winning a very clear majority of military votes in both elections. [Not for long](http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20060103-022734-4016r): > [@](#): > > An annual poll by a newspaper group that caters to the military shows support for President Bush and Iraq war is declining. > > The 2005 Military Times Poll – associated with the family of newspapers that includes the Army Times – says 54 percent of the active-duty military respondents support the Iraq war, down 9 points from last year. Support for Bush overall fell from 71 percent to 60 percent. > > The majority - 64 percent - agreed that the military is stretched “too thin to be effective.” > > Half said the civilian leadership of the military does not have military personnel’s best interests at heart. Congress faired worse: 57 percent believe Congress does not have their best interests at heart. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/109 "2006-01-04T03:53:01Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > [Not for long](http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20060103-022734-4016r): That wasn’t a random poll. IOW, it’s next to worthless. Nice try, though. > [@](#): > > Because it was voluntary response rather than a random sampling, its findings may not be representative of the military as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/110 "2006-01-04T04:16:17Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > I’m quite certain you are mistaken. Now, if only one of us was industrious enough to support their claim… I’m not mistaken. This can be shown by looking at officers - which fairly represents that portion of the military population that has received a college education by whatever means. According to a survey by Duke University political scientist Peter Feaver, there are eight Republicans to every Democrat in the officer corps. Believe me, from what I saw when I was in, these numbers do not shock me. [From here.](http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0921/p02s02-usmi.html) BTW, **Fear Itself** , you might notice that I was talking about the current military, not the Vietnam-era one. That should give one pause. In the future, more and more of the candidates running on their war records will be Republicans, and not Democrats. How this helps the Democrats as a party is a mystery to me. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/111 "2006-01-04T04:16:59Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > That wasn’t a random poll. IOW, it’s next to worthless. Nice try, though. No it wasn’t a random poll. It was a poll of the military. I read the Army Times. The times they are a changing. Were I an idiot like you and the other right wing lock steppers I would be afraid of the mid terms. Very afraid. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/112 "2006-01-04T04:19:46Z")
> [@](#): > > According to a survey by Duke University political scientist Peter Feaver, there are eight Republicans to every Democrat in the officer corps. Believe me, from what I saw when I was in, these numbers do not shock me. And the grunts on the ground outnumber officers by what? 20-1? 30-1? And yes they do vote. Be afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/113 "2006-01-04T04:25:19Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > And the grunts on the ground outnumber officers by what? 20-1? 30-1? > > And yes they do vote. > > Be afraid. That wasn’t the question, joker. The question was whether college Republicans or college Democrats are avoiding service more. I think it is quite clear that college Democrats are failing to stand up for their country in as great a proportion. I do not think it reflects well upon them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/114 "2006-01-04T04:29:41Z")
And before you jump all over me about current leadership and the war, please note that I detected these trends during my enlistment in the 1990’s, and Feaver conducted his survey also during the Clinton Administration. If college educated Democrats wouldn’t serve the military then, when would they serve? ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/115 "2006-01-04T04:35:38Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > And before you jump all over me about current leadership and the war, please note that I detected these trends during my enlistment in the 1990’s, and Feaver conducted his survey also during the Clinton Administration. > > If college educated Democrats wouldn’t serve the military then, when would they serve? It’s not the education. It’s the need. The better off don’t serve. Especially in an illegal war. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/116 "2006-01-04T04:44:51Z")
Given the citation I provided concerning the relative proportion of Republicans to Democrats among the officer corps, and the fact that the enlisted corps is divided pretty evenly between the parties (same cite), your answer here doesn’t make a lick of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/117 "2006-01-04T04:49:44Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > It’s not the education. > > It’s the need. The better off don’t serve. As a matter of fact, the better off do serve. In many cases it is because of their service that they become better off. All service academy graduates are cream-of-the-crop. Every officer over the rank of Captain (or Lieutenant for the Navy) has decided to stay in past their initial commitment. For all the jokes I make about officers, the vast majority of them are intelligent, insightful people, and the ones that choose not to stay in generally turn out very well indeed. > [@](#): > > Especially in an illegal war. :rolleyes: And of course everybody who went into a Service Academy or a college ROTC program in 1999 knew that they would be going to Iraq upon graduation. Yeah, that’s it. That comment was a total non sequitor. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/118 "2006-01-04T16:43:42Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > Sign up quick! > > Your kids have precious few months to get through boot camp and invade Iran! Thank the good lord (in school if you have to) that we now have the opportunity to liberate those heathen muslims from their tyranny of Mullah ruled hostility. You know, I read stuff like this and I have to wonder how **dnooman** et. al. get through the day if blind, irrational, unthinking hatred is all they have to offer. Here, maybe [this](http://zapatopi.net/afdb/) will help. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/119 "2006-01-05T05:20:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You know, I read stuff like this and I have to wonder how **dnooman** et. al. get through the day if blind, irrational, unthinking hatred is all they have to offer. > > Here, maybe [this](http://zapatopi.net/afdb/) will help. Being against a war equals hatred huh? Wow! Back that up why dontcha! “Blind, irrational, unthinking”, well then, let’s hear your “insightfull, rational, thinking man’s argument” that makes my position on this issue seem stupid. Be sure to include documentation, not just your “blind, irrational, unthinking” love of the currently ineffective administration. How about making a case for Bush’s administration looking good for once, this whole “it’s not that bad” defense is getting old. Nobody is accountable for anything these days. Not even the President. How nice. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-voters-with-sons-or-daughters-18-25/286712/120 "2006-03-07T05:42:27Z")
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