What’s uncorroborated about them. Would you like mainstream news cites of each and every incident? I can supply them for you.
Does anyone here really believe that the highest classification is “TOP SECRET/PRESIDENTS EYES ONLY” (or whatever you might want to substitute as a title here)?
There are “things” Congress will never (EVER) be told; that damned fraternity is just too leaky and irresponsible with the meager info they have seen. PJ hasn’t (and NEVER will) see any of the stuff, either)
As for new’s source’s, anyone who ONLY listens to NPR and Peter Jennings should not post squat anywhere. A daily mix of CNN, IPL, DEBKA, GLOBALSECURITY, FOX, DNC, and a host of other sources might get you credentials for a post.
So then, 'Uigi, the CIA is lying when it says there is no evidence to establish a link between al-Qaeda and Iraq?
Why would the CIA be lying about this? Seems like under the present circumstances, they would be more motivated to find connections, not to deny them. What gives, in your view?
And here’s a mystery. Why does Our Leader blithely ignore the fact that the CIA is on record as disagreeing with him? I would expect him to at least make some reference to it, to reassure us that he knows what he is talking about.
For instance, if Scylla’s fanciful tale of James bin Bond, secret mole in the very heart of Baghdad, passes flash level intelligence to…whom? Somehow it gets to Our Leader, but by what conduit? Is he wearing a decoder ring?
But never mind, because the humint source is purest gold, totally top notch. We can be assured it is totally top notch because this one source, one single source, utterly trumps all intelligence to the opposite.
Ridiculous.
But nonetheless…Our Leader has Miss Cleo, shall we say. Miss Cleo’s intelligence utterly negates everything else. Our Leader hears the CIA testimony, but is unmoved because he knows better. And he doesn’t feel moved to explain his conviction because…of course! The Scylla Manuever!! Why didn’t I see it before!
All he has to do is say “It’s obvious, and if you don’t see it, its because you’re stupid, which means I don’t have to defend the truth of my assertion because…it’s obvious”
That is an enormously valuable rhetorical device, Scylla!
The whole Iraq thing is a tissue of lies fabricated so that Our Leader can give Iraq’s oil to Haliburton and Harken, and maybe he can get those photos of him in the Rangers locker room destroyed. These are irrefutable facts. They are obvious. If you are too stupid to see that they are obvious, that is further proof that I am right!
Screw Occams Laser! This is the real shit!
The CIA is what we call technically “Really fucking big.” It’s a big bureaucracy that does all kinds of stuff. It writes all kinds of reports based on all kinds of different information, meant to be used for different purposes. More, it sometimes has more than one analyst analyzing the same thing. Sometimes the sources those analysts are using may be the same. Sometimes they may not.
Sometimes those analysts might arrive at different conclusions even if they have the same information.
Based on this information, I will submit the hypothesis for consideration that perhaps it might be unwise to expect all the conclusions and information coming out of this bureacracy to be entirely consistent.
Maybe that might not be a reasonable expectation.
Maybe also everybody at the CIA isn’t exactly the same. Maybe there are people there who hold different opinions. Maybe some are Democrats, some are Republicans, some are more hawkish, and some are more dovish. Maybe some are smarter than others.
My second hypothesis for consideration might be that maybe depending on who you ask “Is Iraq safe or dangerous” at the CIA you might get a differing opinion.
Now I know that these are wild hypothesis. As American citizens we are used to and expect complete consistently out of our government. Nobody here of course has ever received contradictory messages or opinions from a government agency. Everything the government tells us is always nonambiguous and crystal clear. None of us have ever had any confusion dealing with things like post offices, motor vehicle bureaus, or the IRS, and of course all federal judges everywhere would rule exactly the same on every case.
So considering all this, I know my hypotheses are far-fetched.
Clearly there’s only one logical conclusion to reach when we hear that there’s been a conflict between the opinion Peter Jennings heard from one source at the CIA, and the President heard from another.
The President must be lying!
Clearly it couldn’t be Peter Jennings. He’s a newsman, and clearly there couldn’t be more than one opinion coming out of the CIA. After all, it’s a government agency so of course it must be entirely and completely consistend across all spectrums.
Yes. I’m sure of it. Clearly the President is making everything up. The other hypotheses just don’t make any sense, and they’re just not worth considering when we have such an elegant solution so favorable to fair-minded leftists’ preconceived opinionations.
Thank you guys so much. I’m totally convinced.
Yes. It has to be that the Pres is lying.
I am convinced of it.
What is credible evidence? That depends on the specific evidence, doesn’t it? Unless it is “no evidence”, in which case, I think we can agree that it isn’t credible.
Bush north of 1400? I don’t think so. Somebody’s got pretty good weed somewhere. I think that anyone posting in this thread could argue circles around Bush II. Our last elected President, OTOH, could probably keep up with any poster on this board in many subjects, and convincingly fake the others. Ah, the Big Dog. Good times.
The straw man argument is a red herring. I’ve seen it used both ways, and I am not even slightly persuaded that its continued discussion adds anything to this thread.
Oh, come on. I think reasonable people would accept that Bush probably has an IQ in the mid 120’s to lower 130’s. About like, say, the average long-term poster in Great Debates. After all, this guy does have a Harvard MBA, scored in the top 10% of his class on the officer’s candidate test in the Guard, flew fighter jets, and managed to get elected twice in Texas and once as President. He’s not a genius, he’s just a bright, reasonably well educated person with a lot of political talent. But he’s capable of understanding the complex issues and either making reasonable judgements or deferring them to his very competant staff if he isn’t sure.
And he’s willing to delegate authority to people who are better in certain fields than he is. He doesn’t have the hubris of a Gore or a Clinton to think that he, personally, is the best judge on all issues. He runs the presidency like a corporation with him as CEO and an executive staffed by people whose judgement and loyalty he trusts. And then he lets them do their job.
I’ll take that kind of president over a brilliant prima-donna any day.
I think high 120’s is an overly generous estimate. The guy says “NUKE-Q-LAR,” for God’s sake.
Yep, good ol’ down-home George. A dim light, true, but constant, unwavering. Born in the frontier gated community of Midland, George raised himself up by his boating shoes, through the ordeals of prep school, then the harsh asceticism that so characterizes fraternity life. Then an outstanding military career protecting the skies above Lubbock from Viet Cong aircraft. Sadly, the records of the last year of his appointed service have been lost, lost so utterly that its almost as if it never happened.
Finally, with only a paltry few millions in pin money, he plunged into the Awl Bidness.
His record of triumph in this is the stuff of legend, but we have given that sufficient consideration. Oh, Lord, yes. Suffice to say that his record with Harken is clearly as triumphant as his record at Arbusto, or, for that matter, any of the business triumphs of his brother Neil (Silverado) Bush.
It may well be that there are even more triumphs in his record as Governor of Texas. We may never know, Our Leader, in characteristic display of shy modesty, has sheltered his papers away from prying eyes. Some men hide thier light under a bushel, George has put his Texas Gov. career behind a stonewall.
Most men would be quick to release such testimonials to his probity and intelligence as would surely be found amongst those papers. The brilliant, albeit unorthodox, plan to delegate the drafting of pollution laws to the very industries to be regulated! And the uncanny stroke of making them voluntary!
Even today, many marvel at how Texas, and most dramaticly, Houston, has become a healthy climate for business. Very soon now, the concerns of oxygen-breathing life forms are quite likely to be considered. Perhaps. Well. pretty soon. As long as we can keep the government off the backs of business, and in its pocket where it belongs.
And, then, finally, the triumph of very nearly winning a Presidential election! And the ultimate approbation, the unanimous endorsement of the only five votes that really count!
From childhood to President, if there is a single word to describe this man, it has to be “gifted”. He has been given every thing he’s ever had.
Feh, as the Irish say.
Elucidator, my friend, Molly Ivens would be proud of you. You do lay it an pretty heavy but there is just enough truth in every line to give it a tinge of credibility. You should fully expect for some of the people who think the President, well, this President, walks on water, multiplies the loafs and fishes and generally speaks with a straight tongue to haul your bloated carcase into the Pit. I am sure that you will acquit your self well in that forum. You go ahead, I will stay here and cover you. 
Molly Ivin’s book SHRUB is the best I’ve read about W. I especially liked the story about W and his mom arguing about whether Jews go to hell. (W insisted that they DO) So they called up Billy Graham (who I guess has perfect knowledge of all things) and Graham agreed with JUNIOR that Jews do indeed go to hell. W felt properly vindicated. Another illustration of Our Leader’s magnificent intellect.
Elu, that was sheer genius. Gifted is the word.
I blush. I’d take a bullet for Molly, may the Good Lord bless her and keep her all the days of her life.
Hooray! Our President is…above average!!!
But certainly not an above average president.
In light of recent corporate events, this isn’t a very comforting analogy. I’d certainly want the presidency to be run quite a lot better than a corporation.
You people are just waking up * now * to the genius and beauty that is my Boris? (elucidator to you all). Where ya been? Sheesh…
It appears that the CIA is wrong. (Don’t know how long the link will last.)
Oh my God, tuckerfan, thank you for showing us what the mainstream media doesn’t have the guts tell us.