# Bush wants the UN to clean up his mess: Fuck HIM! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266 "2003-09-03T03:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/101 "2003-09-03T18:03:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Plastic Ninja \* > **First off, the Iraqis don’t deserve to get ignored by the UN just to spit in the faces of the US. That’s just fucking sick. Yeah, I’m going to go tell someone whose family got wiped off the face of the Earth that I’m not going to help him because I don’t like that guy over there.** Agreed. Now if that were the only reason the UN may have for refusing to co-operate with the current coalition I’d call them a bunch of jerks playing their power games with peoples lives. The sad fact is there are very good reasons, having nothing to do whatsoever with revenge or hurt feelings, for the UN to refuse the offer of partnership now being extended. The primary reason is that although the call has gone out for additional troops and funds, those additional troops and funds would still be administrated by the US. The current proposal calls for international bodies and resources with still a unilateral leadership. Were I the head of state in another country I would look at this with grave skepticism, even if I had utmost confidence in the competence and wisdom of the leadership of the coalition. Those are MY boys. Those are MY people’s dollars. I OWE it to them to get personally involved and to ensure that someone with their best interests at heart has a voice in how they are used and the power to prevent their abuse. The proposals for UN involvement thus far have been of this type. Seperating the head from the body. Multilateral resources and forces with unilateral leadership. As a person who believes that we live in a global community, I can’t support those types of proposals. If we’re going to accept the participation of their bodies and monies, then we owe it to them to have their voices as well. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/102 "2003-09-03T18:04:07Z")
Wow I’m stunned by that patch mistake. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/103 "2003-09-03T18:05:31Z")
Freudian slip? Bumbling idiots? Probably a bit of both and somehow quite fitting in this clumsy misadventure. But credit where credit is due. At least they thought enough not to put the bullse…er, _patch_, on our soldier’s backs. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/104 "2003-09-03T18:08:08Z")
First Cite got dropped somehow: [http://www.boston.com/dailynews/246/wash/WASHN\_in\_Iraq\_:.shtml](http://www.boston.com/dailynews/246/wash/WASHN_in_Iraq_:.shtml) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/105 "2003-09-03T18:26:33Z")
**elf6c** , you really are a simple little fool. It took you all that typing (I am proud of you for finding that mysterious oracle ‘Google’), to make no point. You certainly don’t refute mine. It takes very little force, if properly applied, to keep power, even in the face of heated restistance. And I stand by that. Crack 'em in the nose hard _now_, and you won’t have unsurmountable problems later. The British (in google, type ‘British’!) were masters of this, as they were massively outnumbered in all of their possesions, and I can count on one hand how many they lost, as opposed to left, of their own free will and on their own schedule. I have addressed your other ‘points’ in other posts. I will leave the reading comprehension to you. (Doomed to failure, I know, but I am a optimist.) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/106 "2003-09-03T18:48:31Z")
I stand by my point, but I take back the name-calling, **elf6c**. No need to stoop to that level. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/107 "2003-09-03T18:48:36Z")
USSR, **Brutus**? You know, Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, the Ukraine, Khazakstan, Turkmenistan, Belarus? I don’t think anyone can accuse those old Stalinists of being liberal weak-kneed bleeding hearts. But they lost them all. Wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/108 "2003-09-03T18:52:25Z")
The dialectic of history ? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/109 "2003-09-03T18:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*I stand by my point, but I take back the name-calling, **elf6c**. No need to stoop to that level. \*\* 1. No need to apologize- you do it all the time- poorly. Its part of your “charm”. 2. You didn’t refute anything (yet again) and still seem baffled by the concepts of proof, evidence or providing Cites. Redefining reality to one where you aren’t constantly being refuted by linked Cites from credible sources is rather pathetic- even for you. At least I don’t have to worry about stooping to your level, that would require a lobotomy and a **Clockwork Orange** type exposure to the Bill O’Reilly show. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/110 "2003-09-03T18:58:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pantom \* > \*\*USSR, **Brutus**? You know, Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, the Ukraine, Khazakstan, Turkmenistan, Belarus? I don’t think anyone can accuse those old Stalinists of being liberal weak-kneed bleeding hearts. But they lost them all. Wonder why? \*\* The dissolution of the USSR itself is another matter. The system they built their empire on was unstable; The very point of empire is commerce, and if your political system doesn’t allow for commerce, well… And while Ukraine and the Baltic states are certainly rather anti-Russia, (perhaps pro-West is putting it better), the various -stans are still in Russia’s orbit to some degree. Yeltsin was no Peter the Great, but he did a decent job at keeping Russian influence in some states, even though Russia had so much less influence to use. Give Russia another decade or two. Perhaps their empire is just taking a break? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/111 "2003-09-03T19:05:57Z")
You’re making progress there, **Brutus**. Empires are inherently unstable, since the people under the jackboot rather resent being in that position. That makes them expensive too, since it means constantly having to keep troops in the occupied areas to keep the natives from getting too restless and even more importantly and more relevant in the case of the USSR, having to provide the provinces with large subsidies to keep them from rebelling. One way or the other, an expensive proposition. Apropos of that, the following: [http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/03/opinion/03HEPB.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/03/opinion/03HEPB.html) Choice quote: > [@](#): > > In addition, Iraq is buried under a mountain of foreign debt — roughly $350 billion. This consists of $90 billion in conventional foreign debt (mostly for arms purchases from Russia, China, France and Germany), $60 billion in pending contracts, and war reparations of $200 billion for Iraq’s 1990 invasion of Kuwait. It is anticipated that, through the Paris Club system, the commercial debt may be reduced and repayment will be deferred until Iraq’s economy can get back on its feet. It is also possible that the United Nations’ Kuwait claims commission will find a way to reduce the war reparations burden. But even so, these debts will have to be paid off eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/112 "2003-09-03T19:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pantom \* > **…One way or the other, an expensive proposition.** Absolutely! But that is why we have to pick and choose our points of engagement. For all of the costs, Iraq can be a splendid place to be. Sitting near a large chunk of the worlds oil reserves, right next to Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Certainly these three have a hand in riling the opposition in Iraq, (not to mention terrorism in general), since they know who is next. (And not neccesarily in an ‘invasion’ sense; The threat of troops on their borders will be enough, if their leaders have any sense of self-preservation.) \*\* > [@](#): > > Apropos of that, the following: [http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/03/opinion/03HEPB.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/03/opinion/03HEPB.html) > Choice quote: \*\* Didn’t realise that they so much debt. Certainly it will have to be dealt with, but it isn’t as if though _we_ are going to pay it off. But it does give the world yet another reason to wish success to us on our venture; A stable and prosperous Iraq has a better chance of paying off said debt than some theocratic excuse for a country, no? Somewhat related, there is a long-term timeline for total disengagement from the Middle East: When our economy no longer relies on a steady flow of modestly priced oil, I can virtually guarantee that we will haul ass out of there, faster than you can say, “Saudi terrorist funding”. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/113 "2003-09-03T19:36:07Z")
It seems like it was only yesterday when the iraqi people were suffering the consequences of the embargo and the USA blamed Saddam Hussein entirely. “After all” the USA said, “he only has to comply with the terms of the UN and the embargo would end. Only he is to blame for the suffering of the Iraqi people as it is in his hand to end it and he won’t do it.” Now we have the USA governing Iraq and the Iraqi people are still suffering a bad government. The USA could get massive UN support tomorrow merely by going to the UN hat in hand and asking for the UN to take over but the USA won’t do it as it wants to keep control. By the same reasoning, isn’t the USA to blame for the situation? Like Saddam, it is in their hand to end it and they won’t do it. It seems like it was only yesterday that we could hear voices saying the USA would pay France back by repudiating the Iraqi debt and shutting out France from the lucrative reconstruction programs. Jingoistic Americans were having wet dreams of petty revenge and I have no doubt they would call for those things to be done if America were in a position to do it. It seems it was only yesterday. . . but how things have changed. now we hear calls for not being petty. I agree. Nobody should be petty. Let America lead the way and turn control over to the UN. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/114 "2003-09-03T19:47:13Z")
**Brutus** : there is no threat from our troops. They’re bogged down trying to keep Iraq from blowing up; any thought of applying pressure to the neighbors is long gone. As to the oil bit, forget it. If Iraqi oil can’t even pay for the reconstruction of the country, what good does it do us to have control over it? It’s a financial and military rathole at the moment, and without the UN, that’s what it will continue to be. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/115 "2003-09-03T22:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\*When Washington left office he left a warning that the United States beware of European entanglements. Would you rather we had stayed out of WWI, WWII, and Bosnia? > > Marc \*\* I knew somebody would take that angle on my post. I just knew it. As soon as I posted it I knew that just like with laid back people talking about the Bible, and then full on die hards talking about the Bible, somebody would come along and take the essence of my post and ultra interpret it to the most literal degree, and throw in a healthy dressing of hyperbole, and then serve it back up to me. All I can say is this - there was a certain “philosophical spirit” to George Washington’s famous quote. (Sorry I got the Thomas Jefferson bit wrong - eh, I’m Australian) Nonetheless, the quote is a very, very famous one - and the “spirit” of the quote (at least as far as I can tell) is that Washington was passing on some brilliant wisdom - namely, don’t fucking hold grudges on the international level. Grudges are bad. If the people hold grudges, they can influence the goverment to make reckless decisions. If the government makes it policy to hold grudges, it can influence the people to show ugliness towards a people who would otherwise not deserve it. There’s a difference between “looking for trouble”, and being asked by a friend in dire need for help - and even then, it still took Pearl Harbour and a Declaration of War by Adolf Hitler TOWARDS the USA for the US to get involved in the European theatre in WWII. **MGibson**? Your post would indicate that the USA jumped into WWII like jumping into a pond at the first sign of summer and nothing could be farther from the truth. But mark my words here… prior to April 2003, the USA still had a shaky hold on the high moral ground, historically speaking. She could rightfully state on the World Stage that she “doesn’t start fights, she finishes them”. Not this time though - and it was a really sad thing for me to see unfold. I love the USA, and I love the American people even more so. I’ve had some of the best fun and warm times in my entire life in my various spells in that country. Something has gone wonky though. Trust a friend on this. Something has gone wonky. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/116 "2003-09-03T22:41:07Z")
Wow…I came to read a rant and a debate broke out! Agree or not Iraq as a country alone is on it’s way out. The country will end up being partioned into three seperate states. None of the ethnic groups will ever agree to be governed by any of the others. Also…let’s hope we don’t tick the Shia’s off too much. There is this group called Mahdi’s army. With a base of 15k, well trained (in Iran) and well supplied. This base is being joined by more and more men everyday. If this group decides to go to the ground and take on the US in a guerilla war…we haven’t seen bad yet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/117 "2003-09-03T22:48:47Z")
We should thank friend **Brutus** for keeping us aware of the proud tradition of _realpolitik_, from Machiavelli through Metternich and Bismarck and beyond. It surely does not lack that “vision thing” that so perplexed Bush I, it is the Shining Citadel on the Hill. I would like to propose that we nominate friend **Brutus** as Ambassador at Large, to carry the message abroad to the subordinate nations, so that they are not confused. It seems we are witnessing a bit of an avalanche, politics wise. Just a couple days ago, Richard “Big Dick” Armitage casually let slip that the US _might_, just might, mind you, consider the suggestion that the UN be permitted to contribute to the US…excuse, _Coalition_…efforts in Iraq. The Seychelles, Lithuania, and Estonia being not quite up to the task, apparently. Of course, there was no question about any concessions on _our_ part. Don’t be silly. We’re the Americans. But with recent reporting, the reaction has stampeded. I think the Bushiviks lost control of this: they were just tentatively launching a trial balloon, and oooops! Hindenburg. So he’s stuck with it. He has this one hope: that thowing himself at the mercy of the UN will actually work (as I dearly pray that it will) without bloody disaster. And that, after the fact, he can claim credit for it. Or, otherwise, if it does totally collapse into horror and chaos, he can blame it on France. I took offense at friend **Shodan’s** insult to **DtC** , as to the “masturbatory” nature of “Bush-bashing”, until I realised it was probably just a simple mistake. The expression, **Shodan** , is “bashing the bird” not “bashing the bush.” You probably have it mixed up with that proverb about the bird in the hand, etc. One is, of course, a relatively harmless entertainment, while the other is a stern civic duty, howevery gleefuly performed. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/118 "2003-09-03T22:51:04Z")
**Boo Boo Foo** , you damn near brought a tear to my eye. First time I ever saw someone actually understand what ol’ George was saying. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/119 "2003-09-03T22:53:13Z")
**elucidator** : pray elucidate: Which one, bashing the bird or the bush? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266/120 "2003-09-03T23:14:52Z")
It looks like the Bush Administration is really laying the charm on thick these days: > [@](#): > > In unusually blunt language that drew surprised gasps from reporters, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher scoffed at Belgium, France, Germany and Luxembourg for continuing to support the proposal that they first introduced at a mini-summit in April. > > He described the April meeting as one between “four countries that got together and had a little bitty summit” and then referred to them collectively as “the chocolate makers.” [US derides ‘chocolate makers’ for EU military headquarters plans](http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030902194053.6643y9yk.html) (Sept. 2/03) What a way to build Good Will :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-the-un-to-clean-up-his-mess-fuck-him/199266.md?page=7)