# Bush wants to eliminate Perkins Loans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008 "2005-02-14T15:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/1 "2005-02-14T15:23:35Z")
Apparently Bush thinks he needs to make a greater effort to buttfuck poor people in his second term. He now wants to [eliminate Perkins Loans](http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2005/02/08/63128) for no real reason I can fathom other than he’s an evil, elitist little fuck with no ethical core. Without thePerkins program I could not have gone to college. Without the Perkins program, a _lot_ of lower middle class and poor kids cannot go to college. Of course, Bush would not know anything about that because his own Ivy league education was bought and paid for by his daddy. There’s something just a bit extra scummy about a man who was born rich, who has never had a job and who has never had to earn a fucking thing in his life doing everything he can to fuck the working poor every chance he gets. This man is scum. When are the red states going to realize it? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/2 "2005-02-14T15:31:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Without thePerkins program I could not have gone to college. Well, that’s at least some money from the program which was pretty fucking obviously wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/3 "2005-02-14T15:34:23Z")
Look on the bright side: Those who already have college educations will face less competition for jobs in the upcoming years. In 18 years we’ll all be able to hire-on some dirty uneducated prole as our very own household servant!! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/4 "2005-02-14T15:35:29Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Well, that’s at least some money from the program which was pretty fucking obviously wasted. Fuck you, asshole, do you actually have anything to say about the story or do you just want to take an idiotic potshot at a poster who is clearly more intelligent than you are? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/5 "2005-02-14T15:36:11Z")
Bush’s budget will be DOA in Congress. He’d like to cut a lot of stuff that Congress won’t. I agree it’s a bad cut, and I intend to let my Congresswoman and Senators know it’s bad, but I won’t get bent out of shape about it until I see what Congress does. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/6 "2005-02-14T15:38:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Fuck you, asshole, do you actually have anything to say about the story or do you just want to take an idiotic potshot at a poster who is clearly more intelligent than you are? If you want to dismiss someones insult as being “idiotic,” don’t let on that it offended you so much. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/7 "2005-02-14T15:41:09Z")
[Again to **Manhattan** because I’m sick and I can’t let it go] FYI, my Perkins Loan has been paid back with interest, so how was the money “wasted?” If you’re insinuating for some reason that I didn’t _deserve_ to get a loan or go to college could you please explain why? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/8 "2005-02-14T15:41:34Z")
The article mentioned that the Stafford Loan program will be expanded, is this not going to pick up the slack for getting rid of Perkins? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/9 "2005-02-14T15:43:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Fuck you, asshole, do you actually have anything to say about the story or do you just want to take an idiotic potshot at a poster who is clearly more intelligent than you are? Eat shit, brainless one. You’ve clearly done no research whatsoever on the program other than your no-credit-having parents got you into it. You’ve not looked at how the money is being reallocated or what other alternatives exist. Even half the people in the article you quoted believe it may be beneficial to cut the program or are seeking to learn more. Your knee is not the only part of you that’s prone to being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/10 "2005-02-14T15:44:30Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If you’re insinuating for some reason that I didn’t _deserve_ to get a loan or go to college could you please explain why? No. I’m implying that college apparently did nothing for your critical thinking skills. It didn’t work on you. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/11 "2005-02-14T15:46:27Z")
As always, you are rather selective in your outlook, Dio. From the very article that you posted: > [@](#): > > Tricia Grimes, a policy official with the Minnesota Higher Education Services Office, said cutting the Perkins Loan program could have advantages. > > Grimes said it would make the financial-aid process less complicated for students and universities. Many students take out more than one type of loan, she said. > > In addition to eliminating Perkins Loans, Bush is proposing to increase the borrowing limits for the Stafford Loan so students could use it to pay for a larger portion of their education. > > “Any way to simplify the process is beneficial, and this may be a small step in the right direction,” Grimes said. > > **One justification for cutting Perkins Loans is that they serve a relatively small number of students, Grimes said**. In 2002-03, 14,000 students in Minnesota received Perkins Loans, and 90,000 received Stafford Loans, Grimes said. (bolding mine) But, hey - it gave you an opportunity to call Bush “an evil, elitist little fuck with no ethical core”. Not that you needed one; you seem to pull remarks like that out of your ass on a regular basis. Why let facts get in the way of a good rant, right? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/12 "2005-02-14T15:47:10Z")
As I understand it, Bush wants to redirect the money saved by phasing out the Perkins Loan program to increasing the Pell Grant’s maximum amount. I know little to nothing about loans and grants (I was awarded a scholarship and my Mom paid for the rest of my college education), but is it possible to receive both a Pell Grant and a Perkins Loan? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/13 "2005-02-14T15:47:45Z")
Actually, the plan here is to enpand both the eligibility and the monetary awards for Pell grants, retain Stafford loans, and phase out Perkins loans. [Cite.](http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/08/420874ca061de) [Another cite.](http://www.axcessnews.com/national_020805a.shtml) If you can’t fathom a reason, **Diogenes** , it’s because you didn’t go looking very hard. Now, whether or not this is a worthwhile proposal is a worthy matter of debate. I don’t think this is yet more proof of Bush’s evilness, though, and saying it is just makes a person look silly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/14 "2005-02-14T15:48:48Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Eat shit, brainless one. You’ve clearly done no research whatsoever on the program other than your no-credit-having parents got you into it. My parents had nothing to do with it, dickwad. I was 28 fucking years old when I took out my loans and went back to college. My parents’ credit is just fine and fuck you for insulting them without knowing shit about them. Everything I did to go to college was done on my own as a full grown adult. Don’t make assumptions when yu don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/15 "2005-02-14T15:52:00Z")
The proposed increases in Pell Grants and Stafford loans a.) will not be enough to cover the loss from the Perkins Loans and b.) the Stafford Loans take the credit history of parents into the equation and Perkins Loans don’t. If you’re poor and your parents have bad credit YOU CAN"T GET A STAFFORD LOAN. That’s the whole fucking POINT of Perkins Loans. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/16 "2005-02-14T15:53:12Z")
The Perkins loan is reserved for students with need. Stafford is for anyone. Lumping needy students into Stafford is likely to lower the amount of aid for them. Many more applicants in a not much bigger pot of money, you know? From [here](http://www.staffordloan.com/loaninfo/perkins.shtml): > [@](#): > > The Perkins Loan is the best student loan available. It is a subsidized loan, with the interest being paid by the federal government during the in-school and 9-month grace periods after leaving school. There are no origination or guarantee fees and the interest rate is 5%. At first blush, I don’t see how you can say there is no difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/17 "2005-02-14T15:53:44Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Don’t make assumptions when yu don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The proposed increases in Pell Grants and Stafford loans a.) will not be enough to cover the loss from the Perkins Loans and b.) the Stafford Loans take the credit history of parents into the equation and Perkins Loans don’t. If you’re poor and your parents have bad credit YOU CAN"T GET A STAFFORD LOAN. That’s the whole fucking POINT of Perkins Loans. This shit just writes itself. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/18 "2005-02-14T15:54:00Z")
Oh, dear. On preview I see that all my points have already been made. Oh well. I will simply point out that you are extremely weak-minded and stupid, as well as a hysterical and paranoid fruitcake with delusions of adequacy. > [@](#): > > Kent Ortner, president of Students Against Political Ignorance, said that although he is personally against cutting the Perkins Loan program, he thinks there is a legislative reason for it. > > “The Bush administration is trying to cut down the bureaucracy (and cost) for higher-education institutions,” Ortner said. So Kent Ortner can talk about the issue without being a complete asshole, buffoon, and shit-for-brain clown. Take him for an example. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/19 "2005-02-14T15:54:28Z")
**Clothahump** , from what I understand, the reason that it serves fewer students is because it targets a different group–those whose families don’t have a good credit history. So the fact that it serves fewer people then the other programs isn’t too important if it’s serving people that the other programs won’t help. I agree that the Bush-bashing should wait until we know if the expansions in other programs are going to compensate for the elimination of the Perkins program. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008/20 "2005-02-14T15:56:48Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > As always, you are rather selective in your outlook, Dio. > > From the very article that you posted: > > (bolding mine) > > But, hey - it gave you an opportunity to call Bush “an evil, elitist little fuck with no ethical core”. Not that you needed one; you seem to pull remarks like that out of your ass on a regular basis. Why let facts get in the way of a good rant, right? > [@](#): > > 14,000 students in Minnesota received Perkins Loans He’s ass-raping 14,000 poor people in Minnesota alone. That’s a lot of ass-raping all by itself and it’s only one state. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-wants-to-eliminate-perkins-loans/290008.md?page=2)