# Bush "We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728 "2003-07-15T20:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/21 "2003-07-15T22:19:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Publius \* > \*\* Frankly, I’m baffled by what the President said. It’s as though he confused the Administration’s desired pre-war scenario with what actually occurred. \*\* **Bingo!** ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/22 "2003-07-15T23:37:34Z")
Yes but I believe I recall (sorry, no google) that there were areas that were off limits to the inspectors. The inspectors were ‘allowed’ to ‘inspect’ what Saddam ok’d. Perhaps Bush was referring to the areas that were ‘off limits.’ Still he did blunder by not being more clear. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/23 "2003-07-15T23:44:45Z")
“Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics” Unfortunately, I don’t think Bush is bright enough to use statistics. Luckily, he’s completely comfortable with the first two. ---
**Author:** ![Publius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@Publius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Publius)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/24 "2003-07-16T00:02:21Z")
My apologies for not being more clear myself, **japatlgt** ; I thought I addressed that point in my last post. In the past, Saddam had certainly prohibited UN inspectors from entering certain sites in Iraq, most notably his many presidential palaces. During the most recent round of inspections, however, UNMOVIC was granted [access](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/15/sproject.irq.wrap/index.html) to these palaces, as well as all other sites that they wished to inspect, under the terms of UNSCR 1441. US and UN objections to the way in which inspections were proceeding hinged not on UNMOVIC’s access to restricted sites, as they had in the past, but on the issues of [private interviews of scientists, U-2 overflights,](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/03/sprj.irq.wraps/index.html) [the destruction of Al-Samoud ballistic missiles,](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/03/sprj.irq.missiles/index.html) and [US allegations that the UN inspection teams had been compromised](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.powell.transcript.03/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/25 "2003-07-16T00:03:32Z")
It does kind of shed some light, maybe. I remember the quote when GeeDubya went to Poland, after the dreaded Trailers of Doooom were discovered. By the time he arrived in Warsaw, there already was considerable controversy as to the true purpose of these derelict rustbuckets, with a good case being made by experts that they did not represent anything remotely similar to a bio-weapons lab. Now, there just isn’t any way that GeeDubya wouldn’t have been aware of this. Yet in his interview in Warsaw he specificly points to the Trailers of Doooom as proof of his WMD contentions. Without so much as a hint of a disclaimer. Maybe the man really _does_ believe what he’s saying. Being afraid. Being very afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/26 "2003-07-16T00:07:33Z")
Even the assertion by some that Hussein stalled and did not cooperate with inspectors is not quite true. Towards the end of the the inspections, Blix reported that the Iraqis were starting to show real cooperation. So what the President meant is beyond me. I belive he simply misspoke. The whole Iraq situation is much simpler in his mind, you see, so these mistakes are bound to happen from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/27 "2003-07-16T00:13:14Z")
Get used to it. He’s going to be elected again in 2004, so you’re in for a long ride. All across America, makers of dictionaries are changing the definition of the word ‘glory’ to “whatever we intend it to mean”. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/28 "2003-07-16T00:30:54Z")
**TVAA** has a good point. It refers to this exchange: > [@](#): > > “There’s glory for you!” > > “I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’” Alice said. > > Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t–till I tell you. I meant, ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’” > > “But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument,’” Alice objected. > > “When _I_ use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean–neither more nor less.” > > “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you _can_ make words mean do many different things.” > > “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master–that’s all.” > > Alice was much too puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. “They’ve a temper, some of them–particularly verbs: they’re the proudest–adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs–however, _I_ can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That’s what _I_ say!” > > “Would you tell me, please,” said Alice, “what that means?” > > “Now you talk like a reasonable child,” said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. “I meant by ‘impenetrability’ that we’ve had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you’d mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don’t mean to stop here all the rest of your life.” > > “That’s a great deal to make one word mean,” Alice said in a thoughtful tone. > > “When I make a word do a lot of work like that,” said Humpty Dumpty, “I always pay it extra.” > > “Oh!” said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark. > > “Ah, you should see 'em come round me of a Saturday night,” Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to side, “for to get their wages, you know.” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/29 "2003-07-16T00:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\* > You guys seem to have forgotten that he only let the inpsectors in **after** the US started stages the military for war. > \*\* W/o pining down what exactly the stages were… Cite an example that seems as if this were forgotten, please. i must’ve missed it. _I_ certainly remember that we’re talking about Hussein. I find it easy to believe all manner of evil about the man and the Iraqi Baathist regime under his rule. I have no doubt that there had not been the threat of force that Hussein would’ve refused any sort of inspection process that he didn’t like. I also understand that the threat of the US military is a powerful deterrent and “inducement.” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\* > Do you really think he would have otherwise? \*\* No, I don’t really think so. However, the functionality of my memory and my opinion about what what would’ve happened in the hypothetical world where the threat of military force was not applied to Iraq doesn’t seem to alter in the slightest that inspectors _were_ allowed into Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/30 "2003-07-16T00:57:00Z")
Simon: It is an indisputable fact that SH refused the latest round of inspections until the US readed forces for war. Were we supposed to to keep our forces on full alert near Iraq indefinitely, as there is no reason to believe that SH would have allowed inspections to continue indefinitely? Terms of the first Gulf War did not have an expiration date. Hey, I was not in favor of going to war with Iraq, because I did not believe Iraq was a significant threat to the US. But I do believe we were justified in doing so based on SH’s behavior since the Gulf War. And I’m just not ready to pounce on Bush everytime he says something that might be interpreted as being deceitful. What is the point here? Do you believe that Bush is denying that inspectors did not, in the end, get into Iraq after we readied our forces for war? Do you think he “forgot”? Or do you think, as is much more reasonable, that you are putting his words under a microscope and misinterpreting what was meant? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/31 "2003-07-16T01:30:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MMI \* > \*\*I don’t think anyone argues that a credible threat was necessary (although the other thing Saddam was looking for was an indication that sanctions would be lifted as a result of the inspections) , but that does not necessarily justify invasion. \*\* **I do. I most certainly do.** I may be eligible for some qualifier with negative connotations, but I argue it vehemently. I argue that it if we are to send our soldiers off to die, if we are going to tell the children of these men and women Mommy or Daddy has will never come home, if we are going to tell the parents who send children off to war that they have lived to see their child buried, then we’d damn well better have a reason that’s worthy of those lives. As a member of the American electorate, a portion of ALL the blood spilled in the name of America is on my hands. The blood of foreign armies, the blood of foreign civilians, the blood of American soldiers- some of all that is mine. I’ve no desire to stain my hands with blood through my responsibility as a national with a representative form of government. Yet, I realize that there are times when the shedding of blood is unavoidable. A credible threat is such a time. The justification for spilling real blood requires real threats. Hypothetical threats justify only hypothetical blood. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/32 "2003-07-16T01:31:08Z")
Can those of you who are still diehard Bush supporters admit that the words in the OP indicate that Bush is either confused or incoherent or untruthful? > [@](#): > > “We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in.” Interesting to note that it is exactly sixteen words again. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/33 "2003-07-16T01:33:47Z")
**SimonX** – well said! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/34 "2003-07-16T01:40:04Z")
**John** , It’s just another line among many. The plausible deniability of the admin has worn thin. They’ve made too many convenient mistakes, misstatements, and misunderestimations. They say what they want to get out in the headlines and only later come back and qualify it. They do so as deliberate tactic in the competition for the minds of the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/35 "2003-07-16T01:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > but I’m 99% sure that BrightNShiny was joking Yes, I was joking. But in all seriousness, this is such a blatantly obvious falsity, I really have a hard time believing that Bush believes it. He probably misspoke. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/36 "2003-07-16T01:44:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrightNShiny \* > \*\* > He probably misspoke. > \*\* I’m sure that he did. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/37 "2003-07-16T01:52:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*And I’m just not ready to pounce on Bush everytime he says something that might be interpreted as being deceitful. What is the point here? Do you believe that Bush is denying that inspectors did not, in the end, get into Iraq after we readied our forces for war? Do you think he “forgot”? Or do you think, as is much more reasonable, that you are putting his words under a microscope and misinterpreting what was meant? \*\* The point is that before, during, and since the war, the evidence of various aspects of nuclear, bio, and chem weapons programs that the Bush administration was so damned sure of, and used to justify the war to the UN, to Congress, and to the American people, has been proven false, fraudulent, or nonexistent. (Not to mention the Bush war plan whose most charitable interpretation is that Bush never expected to find WMDs over there in the first place.) What Bush seems to have left is a combination of public faith that somehow, somewhere, WMD evidence will somehow turn up, and complete and total evasion on the issue of what justification he and his henchmen had to say the things they said to induce us to invade another country. At this point, he and Rumsfeld and the lot of them can come clean, and maybe they can politically save their sorry asses. But when you’re doing your best to evade 'fessing up to your past untruths, it’s often easy to pile up more untruths on top of earlier ones, by sheer accident. Because when you’re trying to avoid coming clean, explanations get tangled, and you only make things worse. That’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/38 "2003-07-16T01:54:36Z")
The sad part is that a president can say “black is white” and those who happen to belong to his party will either swallow it without thinking or twist and squirm their brains until they can wrap it around the concept. No, can’t ever start to think my guy was wrong… The other politicians are the bad guys, but this guy, he’s different… ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/39 "2003-07-16T01:59:38Z")
**MMI** , it is interesting that you say: > [@](#): > > I don’t think anyone argues that a credible threat was necessary If you look back at various threads dealing with this very subject, both in GD and the Pit, I think you will find this is more the case than you otherwise expected. I would drag in a buncha cites, but there’s a baby bird in the kitchen on a paper plate and we’re attempting (fiancee and I) to ensure that it lives. I hope you understand:) ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728/40 "2003-07-16T02:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > **What spin is needed? This is exactly what Bush had been saying all along. The inspectors were inspecting for WMDs. S.H. showed that he was only interested in stalling and not dealing with what was required of him under the cease fire terms of Gulf War I. > … > Terms of the first Gulf War did not have an expiration date.** The next problem is that the 1991 cease fire terms were UN mandated, so only the UN had the authority to decide whether SH was in breach of these terms or not. This is not the same as Bush deciding that SH wasn’t cooperative enough or didn’t give the inspectors enough room. Bush could (and did) unilaterally decide that on it’s own. The inspectors themselves were pleased with the progress they made. And the fact is, the inspectors never ever found undeclared WMDs, not in 1991-98, and not in 2002-2003. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-we-gave-him-a-chance-to-allow-the-inspectors-in-and-he-wouldnt-let-them-in/188728.md?page=3)