# Bush whines about media "filter" on Iraq, damn those pesky facts! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221 "2003-10-13T17:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/41 "2003-10-15T01:49:04Z")
Hey **elf6c** , I know you used **8 cites!!!** up above, but you’re in a sticky situation. The more cites you can come up with (and the fewer he can come up with) the more it demonstrates the ease with which one collects evidence that things are going badly. From where we are, **no number** of cites will “prove” that things are going badly. Since none of you are in Iraq currently (Iraq Dopers, sound off, PLEASE) there are no credible cites. Each journalist out there is reporting not everything he sees, but everything he sees which _he or his editor_ thinks is relevant to the story at hand. When a [soldier writes home](http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10315503&BRD=2554&PAG=461&dept_id=507134&rfi=6) you can expect it to be more than a little biased, but read what he’s saying, and ask yourself, “has any of that been in the news?” No, that link doesn’t point to one of the [stupid form letters](http://www.boston.com/dailynews/287/nation/Form_letters_from_soldiers_in_:.shtml) that made me want to kick a hole in my wall. It points to a real letter that a real guy wrote to his hometown paper. So, **elf6c** , I will now state my conclusion: things are going well in Iraq, except for the fact that American soldiers are dying at a rate that is much lower than the civilian casualty rate during the Iran-Iraq War. I’ll even spin it your way: things are going horribly wrong in Iraq, except that the power’s back on better than before, there’s clean water, the hospitals are open, there’s free speech, and a decent shot at a democratically elected government. Find me a cite or two that disagree with that soldier’s numbers–you’ve got all the resources of the “unfiltered” media at your disposal, right? Remember, smart guy: the media don’t tell you what to think. The media tell you what to think **about**. –Jurph ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/42 "2003-10-15T02:50:38Z")
Hey **Jurph** , I’ve got bad news for you. This guy’s filled his letter not with the stuff he’s actually _seen_ and _experienced_, but with PR straight out of [Paul Bremer’s press release](http://www.cpa-iraq.org/transcripts/20031009_Oct-09Bremerpresscon.htm): > [@](#): > > On Oct. 8, electricity production reached 4,400 megawatts of power, which is above the levels produced before the war. > > Prior to the war, only 35 percent of the hospitals were open. Today, 100 percent of the hospitals are open and operating at full staffing. > > Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and are open. I think I’m on safe ground in saying SFC Raymond Reynolds of D Company, 234th Signal Battalion, doesn’t know these facts, if facts they be, firsthand or even secondhand. He ‘knows’ them either through the media or through the military command structure. He knows no better than you or I. But thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/43 "2003-10-16T12:58:47Z")
Well **Jurph** , I did use **actual Cites** to support my agrument. There are plenty of media in Iraq, so most of your “arguments” which seem to consist of abusing the bold function, are wrong. Blaming the messenger for facts you don’t like is very Bush-like. But then again, that was the thesis of the OP. Your post was but yet another example of it. More on the actual (not Rumsfled based spin doctored lies) morale of the troops: > [@](#): > > A broad survey of U.S. troops in Iraq by a Pentagon-funded newspaper found that half of those questioned described their unit’s morale as low and their training as insufficient, and said they do not plan to reenlist. > > The survey, conducted by the Stars and Stripes newspaper, also recorded about a third of the respondents complaining that their mission lacks clear definition and characterizing the war in Iraq as of little or no value. Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training. > > The findings, drawn from 1,935 questionnaires presented to U.S. service members throughout Iraq, conflict with statements by military commanders and Bush administration officials that portray the deployed troops as high-spirited and generally well-prepared. Though not obtained through scientific methods, the survey results suggest that a combination of difficult conditions, complex missions and prolonged tours in Iraq is wearing down a significant portion of the U.S. force and threatening to provoke a sizable exodus from military service. Darn, will you look at that- another Cite in support of my position. Filled with nothing but **facts**. You may want to look into that. And for the evil media basis sorts (often who steadfastly approve of conservative media biased outlets such as Fox News, Washington Times and Wall Street Journal)- it was Stars and Stripes which did the survey. > [@](#): > > In the first of a week-long series of articles, Stars and Stripes said yesterday that it undertook the survey in August after receiving scores of letters from troops who were upset with one aspect or another of the Iraq operation. The newspaper, which receives some funding from the Defense Department but functions without editorial control by the Pentagon, prepared 17 questions and sent three teams of reporters to Iraq to conduct the survey and related interviews at nearly 50 camps. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32521-2003Oct15.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32521-2003Oct15.html) ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/44 "2003-10-16T13:14:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jurph \* > Remember, smart guy: the media don’t tell you what to think. The media tell you what to think **about** So when the overwhelming majority of the US population thought Saddam was (a) linked to 9/11 (b) working with a-Q and © that he had WMD, that wasn’t the US Government - through the good offices of the subservient and compliant US media - _informing_ the people, you’re saying the people formed those views independently. Blimey! Strike a light. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/45 "2003-10-16T17:50:36Z")
Regarding the Stars and Stripes survey - Isn’t it possible that conditions in Iraq can improve while morale among the troops drops? I don’t really see troop morale being a good indicator of anything other than troop morale. I mean even if something very positive happens in Iraq, I imagine a good number of the troops would rather not be there. Here’s an index to the Stars and Stripes series, btw: [http://www.stripes.com/morale/](http://www.stripes.com/morale/) ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/46 "2003-10-16T18:14:17Z")
Well **Mack** , as part of the bullshit offensive coming out of the White House- mainly claims were being made that moral was sky high amoung the troops as part of the “everything’s great, the media is filtering it out” line of spin. This of course did not match what people who were actually there were seeing-- hence the survey proving the truth isn’t a huge priority with regard to this Administration and Iraq. Want more proof- Iran-Contra figures ties to Iraq WMD claims: > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON - Acting through a prominent conservative with friends at the Pentagon, a central figure in the Iran-Contra scandal has passed allegations to the Bush administration that enriched uranium was smuggled from Iraq into Iran five years ago and some may remain hidden in Iraq. > > The intermediary, Michael Ledeen, said the CIA failed to aggressively check out the allegations because of its long-held distrust of Manucher Ghorbanifar, the middleman in the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages deals of the Reagan years. > > The CIA agrees it is skeptical of information from Ghorbanifar, saying he has “proven to be a fabricator.” > > . . . > > “It is true that we have no interest in meeting with Mr. Ghorbanifar since he long ago was proven to be a fabricator and someone who sought to peddle false information for financial gain,” Harlow said. > > Ghorbanifar flunked two lie detector tests for the CIA, and the White House aides and covert operators involved in the arms-for-hostages deals with Iran didn’t trust him, according to testimony from various investigations of that 1980s affair. They continued to deal with Ghorbanifar because of his contacts inside Iran, though eventually pushing him aside in favor of a new middleman. > > Ledeen, who once advised the Reagan White House on national security matters, presented the uranium story first to Pentagon official Tom O’Connell, an assistant secretary of defense. Ledeen, is noted to have a “number of friends in the Pentagon’s civilian leadership” who were interested in the [bogus] story, but the CIA shot it down. Not that it stopped the claim from later being used evidently. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=34&u=/ap/20031016/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/iraq\_uranium\_allegations](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=34&u=/ap/20031016/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_uranium_allegations) ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/47 "2003-10-16T18:27:29Z")
Here’s an interesting discussion of a recent survey. While I would be the first to point out the lack of a given sample size or the actual polling questions are not good, the resulta are somewhat surprising: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27061-2003Oct14.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27061-2003Oct14.html) Basically it states that people who watch primarily Fox News are more likely to beleive that Al Qaida and Iraq are connected, that we found WMD and that George Bush is liked globally. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/48 "2003-10-16T18:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Not that it stopped the claim from later being used evidently. Should be “pushed” not used, Ledeen was trying to go around the rightly skepitical CIA to the receptive ears of the civilians in the Pentagon, where the article notes that outside conservatives like Leeden still seem to have a lot of influence. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/49 "2003-10-16T18:39:25Z")
[http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media\_10\_02\_03\_Report.pdf](http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf) Here’s the entire study cited in the Post article. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/50 "2003-10-16T19:10:44Z")
And here is the Cite to the claims that were being made by the Bush Adminstration: > [@](#): > > The findings also appeared to contradict previous statements by Bush administration officials and returning congressional delegations, which have portrayed morale as high among occupation forces trying to stabilize violent resistance from remnants of Saddam Hussein’s fallen regime as well as restart the economy and government. [http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20031016\_1306.html](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20031016_1306.html) ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/51 "2003-10-17T12:34:56Z")
So when are we going to see the Iraqi people traveling around in blue jeans, cowboy hats and SUVs? Isn’t that the plan? I heard the number one concern of the Iraqi people is how quickly they can get a Starbucks coffee shop. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/52 "2003-10-17T17:04:20Z")
The BS offensive begins: > [@](#): > > This time the American offensive is rolling out big guns, including President Bush himself, who says the media “filter” is distorting the truth of Iraq. “Sometimes it’s hard to tell it when you listen to the filter. We’re making good progress,” Bush said last week. > > Squads of Republican congressmen agree, as they troop through Baghdad on fast-paced tours to see what’s going right in Iraq — electricity returning, schools repainted, water pumps repaired. One, Rep. George Nethercutt, went home to Washington state and complained the U.S. press was missing the real story. > > “The story of what we’ve done in the postwar period is remarkable,” he said. “It is a better and more important story than losing a couple of soldiers every day.” More important? What a fucking moron. What they are glossing over: > [@](#): > > In 20 or more hit-and-run attacks daily, almost 100 American soldiers have been killed by the Iraqi resistance since Bush declared major combat over on May 1. An even greater number of Iraqis have died in mysterious suicide bombings terrorizing their cities. > > . . . . > > Beyond that, even such “positive” stories mask “negative” sides unseen by senators on tours closely guided by American occupation authorities. The schools, for example, need rehabilitation in large part because of the chaotic looting touched off by the U.S. military’s entry into Baghdad in April. And many schools have not been rehabilitated, particularly in poorer neighborhoods and the south. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031017/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/iraq\_good\_news\_and\_bad\_2](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031017/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_good_news_and_bad_2) Gee, the Dog and Pony shows hand picking the one or two good things happening- I am shocked. Loved this headline: > [@](#): > > Heavily Guarded Evans Says Iraq Dangers Overblown Heh heh heh, Ouch! Who is this idiot? Behold: > [@](#): > > “This is not the dismal, frightened area I expected to see having watched the news coverage in the United States over the past six months,” Evans said after a day of meetings – traveling under heavy military guard – with Iraqi students, food distribution workers and small business owners. > > The upbeat assessment came even as the U.S. military said a suicide bomber killed himself and wounded two other people in a car bomb outside the Turkish embassy in Baghdad Tuesday. > > The visit by Evans, a close friend of President Bush and a former oil executive, coincides with a new White House bid to reverse a slide in Bush’s popularity on concerns about the rising cost of the Iraqi occupation and a mounting U.S. military death count. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031014/ts\_nm/iraq\_usa\_evans\_dc\_2](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031014/ts_nm/iraq_usa_evans_dc_2) More good news: > [@](#): > > But at a Middle East power conference in Abu Dhabi on Monday, a senior Iraqi electricity ministry official said Iraq needed an immediate investment of about $8 billion to generate enough electricity just to meet present demands. What another $8,000,000,000? It’s not like the state and federal deficit’s are skyrocketing. Oh, wait. [nothing but blue skies, from now on. . .] :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/53 "2003-10-17T17:32:04Z")
Who is filtering what? Don’t our soldiers in Iraq have better things to do than babysit Cabinet officers? Does the term [Potemkin Village](http://www.bartleby.com/61/0/P0480000.html) mean anything to the Bush Administration or the American people? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221/54 "2003-10-18T10:56:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > \*\*Who is filtering what? Don’t our soldiers in Iraq have better things to do than babysit Cabinet officers? Does the term [Potemkin Village](http://www.bartleby.com/61/0/P0480000.html) mean anything to the Bush Administration or the American people? \*\* Probably not. I’m coming to the conclusion that the whole thing was a PR stunt from beginning to end, and the Iraqi people (and our own soldiers) are just handy props. Unfortunately for them (and our soldiers), it’s sorta backfiring at this point, but that doesn’t change the ground rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-whines-about-media-filter-on-iraq-damn-those-pesky-facts/207221.md?page=2)