# Bush, you're not at a frat party, you dick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 18, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036 "2006-07-18T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/181 "2006-07-20T02:50:26Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I did think about “affectionate shoulder squeeze”, but that implies that the gesture was welcome (which it clearly wasn’t). Hmm. Why don’t we use both, and that way it’s assumed the most accurate impression is somewhere in between? [/QUOTE] I’m down with that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/182 "2006-07-20T03:40:06Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Bush is _sixty years old_. He’s been President of the United States for five and a half years. Before that, he’d been Governor of Texas for six years. Before that, the owner of a major-league baseball team, and a participant in his father’s political campaigns. By now, even if he’d been raised in a barn (which he wasn’t), he should know a little something about protocol. And even if he didn’t, the White House has full-time people whose job is to brief the President about the protocol of public events he’s about to be part of. My theory is, _he doesn’t care anymore_. His last “accountability moment” is behind him, and he realizes he’s blown his chance to advance his agenda in big new ways in his second term. It’s all downhill from here, no high cards left to play, so he’s given up the charade of pretending to be a grownup, and he’s just letting his true self shine through. [/QUOTE] I have another theory. You all think Bush is some stupid backward-assed bumpkin, when in fact he’s a pretty cunning motherfucker. Let’s face it, he’s been running circles around you guys for almost six years. If he’s stupid, what does that make you? The Deciderer took control and dominated the room. It’s the classic “aww shucks, I’m just a friendly country boy” gesture that intimidates, dominates, and keeps everybody else off balance. I’d love to know the context of the gesture, what precisely was being discussed. It could have been a really stupid gesture, or, in the context of a negotiation it could have been genius. Personally, I just try to wear a snazzy tie. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/183 "2006-07-20T03:47:27Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] The Deciderer took control and dominated the room. It’s the classic “aww shucks, I’m just a friendly country boy” gesture that intimidates, dominates, and keeps everybody else off balance. I’d love to know the context of the gesture, what precisely was being discussed. It could have been a really stupid gesture, or, in the context of a negotiation it could have been genius. [/QUOTE] The problem with this, as John Mace as pointed out before, is that it is an _American_ gesture. Not only is the gesture itself American in origin and use, but \*the reaction of being dominated by it \* is also American. Take this example; say there’s an alien who comes to Earth. It walks out of it’s flying saucer, marches up to the nearest person, and gives them the middle finger. Now, on Mars, that gesture actually means “Greetings, I show great respect for you”. According to your theory, that human is going to feel honoured and respected by this gesture. Except that no, he’s not, because it’s a Mars-originated meaning to that gesture that the human doesn’t share; he’s likely going to be pretty insulted (and terrified, but hey, alien). You assume that Bush’s actions were cunning because, while they appear simplistic, they succeeded in allowing him to dominate the talks. Not so; from what we can see, all it did was creep Merkel out. In order to be affected by a gesture from a culture we need to understand what that gesture means in that culture. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/184 "2006-07-20T03:54:24Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] The problem with this, as John Mace as pointed out before, is that it is an _American_ gesture. Not only is the gesture itself American in origin and use, but \*the reaction of being dominated by it \* is also American. Take this example; say there’s an alien who comes to Earth. It walks out of it’s flying saucer, marches up to the nearest person, and gives them the middle finger. Now, on Mars, that gesture actually means “Greetings, I show great respect for you”. According to your theory, that human is going to feel honoured and respected by this gesture. Except that no, he’s not, because it’s a Mars-originated meaning to that gesture that the human doesn’t share; he’s likely going to be pretty insulted (and terrified, but hey, alien). You assume that Bush’s actions were cunning because, while they appear simplistic, they succeeded in allowing him to dominate the talks. Not so; from what we can see, all it did was creep Merkel out. In order to be affected by a gesture from a culture we need to understand what that gesture means in that culture. [/QUOTE] I think it translates well. It’s a pretty basic primate gesture. Germany ain’t Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/185 "2006-07-20T03:56:45Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I think it translates well. It’s a pretty basic primate gesture. Germany ain’t Mars. [/QUOTE] Look at the varying descriptions of the gesture and how people would react to it in this thread alone - many of them by other Americans - and I don’t think you’d be able to say it’s so clear-cut. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/186 "2006-07-20T04:03:35Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I have another theory. You all think Bush is some stupid backward-assed bumpkin, when in fact he’s a pretty cunning motherfucker. Let’s face it, he’s been running circles around you guys for almost six years. If he’s stupid, what does that make you? [/quote] We’re the people who were smart enough that it didn’t take us six years to figure out that he was a moron. The other half of the country has been catching on lately, in case you haven’t noticed. Obviously some more slowly than others, given that there’s still folks trying desperately to defend him. > [@](#): > > The Deciderer took control and dominated the room. It’s the classic “aww shucks, I’m just a friendly country boy” gesture that intimidates, dominates, and keeps everybody else off balance. I’d love to know the context of the gesture, what precisely was being discussed. It could have been a really stupid gesture, or, in the context of a negotiation it could have been genius. Alienating a world leader who still likes us - leading a country whose citizens don’t. This is a smart move? We need fewer allies in the world? It’s sort of funny trying to see you people rationalize and come up with some context in which, conceivably, what he did could be smart. But you’re really straining here. You’re a pretty smart guy, **Scylla**. You know this was a stupid thing to do. You can share his politics. You can think he’s got some sort of _snort_ morality guiding him. But you know perfectly well that he’s an idiot, and this was him as his nadir. World leaders are not generally easily cowed, and Angela Merkel does not have a reputation as a shrinking violet. Violating her personal space probably shocked her, and probably offended her, but if you think she’s the kind of person who would be intimidated by Bush’s buffoonery, you apparently have been following international politics even less than I have. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/187 "2006-07-20T04:07:03Z")
Diplomatic tradition suggests that the President of the United States should behave with something a cut above basic primate gestures. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/188 "2006-07-20T04:19:41Z")
That’s all well and good in theory, **Zoe** , but the man’s gotta be true to his [innate self](http://www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html), doesn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/189 "2006-07-20T04:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **John Mace** : In an odd sort of way, it’s probably Bush’s method of saying he thinks of her as “one of the guys”. > [@](#): > > **John Mace** : I really do think this is Bish, in his unorthodox way, of complimenting her for making it into the boys’ club. Groan. :rolleyes: Rule Change for 2008: Club Membership Limited to Adults Only > [@](#): > > **The Flying Dutchman** : You know there is something strange going on in the political leadership of America. First you have Eisenhower who boinks his secretary… Although I don’t think Ike was anywhere near the first President to stray, if you are refering to his World War II romance, the woman was his driver, not his secretary. I think her name was Kay Summersby. (That’s close, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/190 "2006-07-20T04:37:45Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Although I don’t think Ike was anywhere near the first President to stray, if you are refering to his World War II romance, the woman was his driver, not his secretary. I think her name was Kay Summersby. (That’s close, anyway.) [/QUOTE] Right name. In fact, although Kay and Ike had a close relationship, there’s [considerable doubt](http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/history/faculty/TROYWEB/WithIkeRumorsWereSteamierThanFacts.htm) whether it went as far as bedtime romps. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/191 "2006-07-20T04:38:10Z")
Damn, ETF! Now I’m spooked. Makes me wonder if any day now he’ll start hooking his arms and scratching his sides. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/192 "2006-07-20T06:06:46Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Yes. Those are known as “stupid people”. I hear what you’re saying - a lot of people take pride in not knowing which is the salad fork and which is the dinner fork. [/QUOTE] [complete hijack] Stupid indeed - it is _so easy_. No matter how much hardware is on the table (and it’s gauche in the extreme to have more than two or three forks), the rule is always the same: you start with the outermost and work your way in. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/193 "2006-07-20T06:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] [complete hijack] Stupid indeed - it is _so easy_. No matter how much hardware is on the table (and it’s gauche in the extreme to have more than two or three forks), the rule is always the same: you start with the outermost and work your way in. [/QUOTE] It doesn’t help that some “fancy” - i.e. revoltingly tacky - eating establishments try to deliberately confound diners by placing far more silverware that could ever conceivably be necessary at the place setting. I’ve heard it’s particularly rampant on cruise ships. Since we don’t eat seven course meals anymore, it’s not necessary to have seven forks on the table. But people who don’t know about such things seem to mistake this ridiculous, showy excess as “fine dining”. (And yet you never get a goddamn salad knife at a restaurant. Where the hell did this eminently useful utensil disappear to?) YAAAHH! Don’t get me started on this! I don’t have time to rant, I need to go polish my marrow spoons and ice cream knives. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/194 "2006-07-20T11:37:59Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I have another theory. You all think Bush is some stupid backward-assed bumpkin, when in fact he’s a pretty cunning motherfucker. Let’s face it, he’s been running circles around you guys for almost six years. If he’s stupid, what does that make you? [/quote] Yeah, that’s the ticket - it’s the crazy like a fox defense! Running circles around us? The guy scraped out two elections (the first via a split decision by the judges), and has accomplished nothing other than funnelling lots of money to large corporations. If that’s your measure of success, have at it. I myself would be embarrassed to be shouting “Mr. President! Mr. President! Over here, please!” upside down between my legs with my pants and undies bunched up around my ankles and my hands spreading out my browneye. Looks good on you though. > [@](#): > > The Deciderer took control and dominated the room. It’s the classic “aww shucks, I’m just a friendly country boy” gesture that intimidates, dominates, and keeps everybody else off balance. I’d love to know the context of the gesture, what precisely was being discussed. It could have been a really stupid gesture, or, in the context of a negotiation it could have been genius. Yes. There is nothing that says genius better than Bush’s efforts on the world stage. That’s why even conservatives are expressing scathing criticism of his foreign policy, or complete lack thereof. What a cunning master manipulator! Do we finally have an apologist, folks? Ding ding ding! People said it couldn’t be done, but one should never misunderestimate the right for bootlicking stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/195 "2006-07-20T12:09:07Z")
I’m glad the choir has finally begun to assemble in defense of The Decider. I think Bush is indeed much smarter than commonly thought, else how could he come up with [this gem of wisdom](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700402_pf.html) at lunch at the G-8 summit? > [@](#): > > It takes him eight hours to fly home. Eight hours. Russia’s big and so is China. Russia’s big and so is China. The man’s got a mind like a steel trap. His immense knowledge of geography is astounding. I just hope the other leaders at the summit weren’t too intimidated by who was obviously their intellectual superior. What is even more revolting than Bush’s Roman hands is the complete lack of coverage on television of this gaffe. Rest assured that if Clinton did this, it would have made the evening news that night and provided Rush Limbaugh with a week’s worth of raving. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/196 "2006-07-20T12:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] The man’s got a mind like a steel trap. [/QUOTE] Rusty, and illegal in most states. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/197 "2006-07-20T13:15:09Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I have another theory. You all think Bush is some stupid backward-assed bumpkin, when in fact he’s a pretty cunning motherfucker. [/quote] Well, there’s your problem. Where’d you get the idea that I thought that? I’m on record (over and over and over again) as thinking Bush and his team are actually quite good at those things they care about, but that there’s a rather precipitous drop-off once they get away from the stuff that matters to them. What matters to them: (1) shoveling money and tax breaks to rich people and big or well-connected corporations and industries; and (2) maintaining and increasing their political power, so that they can keep doing (1) into the indefinite future. > [@](#): > > Let’s face it, he’s been running circles around you guys for almost six years. If he’s stupid, what does that make you? See above. I didn’t say he was stupid; I said _he doesn’t care anymore_. > [@](#): > > The Deciderer took control and dominated the room. It’s the classic “aww shucks, I’m just a friendly country boy” gesture that intimidates, dominates, and keeps everybody else off balance. And gets people pissed at you. Which is fine until everybody decides they’ve had enough. And since this is the G-8 and not a frat party, when they’ve had enough it won’t just be Bush’s problem; it’ll be ours. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/198 "2006-07-20T14:51:44Z")
Thanks, **tschild**. Appreciate you sharing that. [QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Johnson and Nixon? Well they didn’t have a chance really did they. [/QUOTE] Am I rembering incorrectly that Johnson crawled into the bed of a female staffer, saying something to the effect of “Move over, your Commander In Chief is here.” Please tell me such was not the stuff of my dreams. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/199 "2006-07-20T16:34:25Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] The Deciderer took control and dominated the room. It’s the classic “aww shucks, I’m just a friendly country boy” gesture that intimidates, dominates, and keeps everybody else off balance. [/QUOTE] These are our allies. Aren’t you supposed to intimidate and dominate the _other_ team. If he wants to give Ahmadinejad a backrub, I’m all for that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/200 "2006-07-20T16:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=Dumbguy] These are our allies. Aren’t you supposed to intimidate and dominate the _other_ team. If he wants to give Ahmadinejad a backrub, I’m all for that. [/QUOTE] Excellent point. You forget, however, that it was not a “backrub.” It was “a completely platonic and exceptionally common cordial fingertip touch of the jacket.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036.md?page=11)