# Bush, you're not at a frat party, you dick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 18, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036 "2006-07-18T16:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/241 "2006-07-22T01:15:16Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] My mistake. I forgot, you already said that you weren’t from Texas. [/QUOTE] I don’t see what’s so great about having a big penis. **I** can have sex without even waking my wife up. Top that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/242 "2006-07-22T01:27:34Z")
Big deal! Rise and dress in stealth, fetch the carkeys without rattling… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/243 "2006-07-22T01:34:18Z")
So what? I can pick locks, and my partner can floss during oral sex. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/244 "2006-07-22T06:43:43Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] i]“She smiled”\*? I don’t know what the fuck they were looking at, but I wouldn’t describe her reaction by saying she smiled. More of your liberal media at work. [/QUOTE] When I watched the video I thought she was starting to smile an instant before it ended. It was poor image quality though. Also, if she did smile I suspect that whoever posted the video made sure it ended before you could see it properly. I think this is a minor issue. The big Bush issues are the Iraq war and the 2000 election shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/245 "2006-07-22T07:56:48Z")
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus] Just curious - those of you responding to \*\*Scylla \*\* with such vigor - do you always react this way to people who are idly yanking your chain? Far be it from me to imply that I can read **Scylla** ’s mind, but it does look to me like he’s staving off boredom by making prodding remarks just to get all of you to react. And here you all are playing along. I hate to admit it, but it’s kind of fun to watch… [/QUOTE] Like I said, I’m surprised to see Scylla sounding quite as stupid as he does here, but the past has suggested that he _is_ something of a True Believer. You might think he’s trolling, but frankly, if anyone were to believe that Bush’s behavior was appropriate, Scylla would come rather high on the list. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/246 "2006-07-23T05:29:11Z")
Ah, coming in too late here, been out of town, but, anyway: I have this picture in my head of the President’s advisors saying: “OK, George, you should give her a good message of who’s in charge, but don’t rub her the wrong way…” And it Deciderizes to, “In Charge…shoulder…give…good massage…rub…”, and off he goes, yet again, into the limelight. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/247 "2006-07-23T06:20:03Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] … Scylla would come rather high on the list. [/QUOTE] Bless his heart , he means well. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/248 "2006-07-23T07:13:40Z")
It’s really too bad that GW is either too obtuse or to naive to appreciate what he hath wrought. I would love to see him losing hair and sleep over his bullheaded blundering. But alas, he just wanders along unaware of the carnage he leaves in his wake and I’m quite sure will go down in his own mind as one of history’s great men. After all he’s smart enough to get rich and what more is needed as proof? ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/249 "2006-07-23T09:12:43Z")
He shoulda gone to Ole Miss. He would have fit right in. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/250 "2006-07-24T07:12:36Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] Hah! That was Ciccolina (or however-the-heck you spell that). She must be old as dirt now. 😃 [/QUOTE] Dirt she is. She died over a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/251 "2006-07-24T10:56:20Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] Dirt she is. She died over a decade ago. [/QUOTE] [Not sure where you got that idea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicciolina) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/252 "2006-07-24T13:58:12Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > [@Scylla](#): > > > > I have another theory. You all think Bush is some stupid backward-assed bumpkin, when in fact he’s a pretty cunning motherfucker. > > Well, there’s your problem. Where’d you get the idea that I thought that? > > I’m on record (over and over and over again) as thinking Bush and his team are actually quite good at those things they care about, but that there’s a rather precipitous drop-off once they get away from the stuff that matters to them. > > What matters to them: (1) shoveling money and tax breaks to rich people and big or well-connected corporations and industries; and (2) maintaining and increasing their political power, so that they can keep doing (1) into the indefinite future. The same way you do. [/quote] > [@](#): > > You see, you read minds and say what Bush thinks. I read your mind and say what you think. If you can arbitrarily attribute motivations to Bush, by what rationale do you take offense if I do the same to you? What’s so arbitrary about what I’m doing? It’s called a _theory_. You observe some data, construct a hypothesis that seems to make the most sense out of the data you’ve got so far, then you continue to observe to see if new data buttresses or contradicts the theory. I’d say it’s holding up pretty well. If you disagree, feel free to explain what the contradictory evidence is. > [@](#): > > If you can make that up, than why can’t I make up what you think? Because you’re just making shit up. Nothing more, nothing less. > [@Scylla](#): > > Let’s face it, he’s been running circles around you guys for almost six years. If he’s stupid, what does that make you? > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > See above. I didn’t say he was stupid; I said he doesn’t care anymore. > > > > > [@Scylla](#): > > > > > > And I say you that you deeply desire to pack oatmeal up a goat’s butt. > > > > > > My attribution of your motivation is as well-founded as yours of Bush’s Who gives a flip? You make shit up about what I say, then when I point out you’re wrong, you pretend we were really arguing about something else rather than coming clean. You’re a dishonest debater. > [@](#): > > Well, perhaps to your way of thinking the worst thing that can happen is to piss somebody off. Frankly, I don’t sweat it so much. More importantly, I naturally don’t trust people who are especially concerned about pissing other people off. Oh, hardly. I just don’t see the gain in _pissing people off for no good reason_. Sometimes you have to do what you think is right in the world, even if it won’t win you any popularity awards. If that pisses people off, that’s life; sometimes you’ve got to do that. What you gain from doing what you have to do will be more important than offending some people. Grabbing leaders of other countries from behind, or spraying sand on them with your bike tires - if that pisses them off, that’s all you’ve done: people think you’re an asshole, and they’re right. > [@](#): > > My experience is that the sort of person who is always worrying about what you are going to think about what they say is pretty insecure, unlikely to level with you, and is perhaps afraid of showing what they really think because they have good reason to be afraid. This is all well and good, but it doesn’t connect with anything in this discussion. > [@](#): > > In order to be honest and communicate and get things done, you can’t be afraid of pissing people off a little bit. And GWB grabbed Merkel’s shoulders “to be honest and communicate and get things done”?? You are a joke. > [@](#): > > I’m generally in favor of pissing people off a little bit, doing things out of sequence, shaking things up a little bit, and knocking people outside of their comfort zone so that you get a genuine reaction. > > Allow me to elaborate. Bush made a gesture at the edge and maybe over the edge of generally acceptable social protocol. It’s not like it’s so far over the line or so unusual that one can make a big deal about it. If one does make a big deal about it one is making a bigger faux pas than the actual incident. > > So, he’s safe in making the gesture. You’ve seen the posts from the women in this thread. The overwhelming consensus is, this is well over the line in an ordinary workplace. In a meeting between world leaders where protocol is important, this is much more over the line than it is in a regular workplace. All I can see is, you will defend Bush in doing stuff that he had no business doing. If Clinton had made such a _faux pas_, everyone on the right would have been denouncing Bubba for his barnyard manners. Including people like you. > [@](#): > > He **gained** something by making this gesture. He got a genuine reaction. This lady doesn’t like him. This lady doesn’t trust him. This lady doesn’t feel friendly towards him. This lady doesn’t want to be familiar with him. Of _course_ she doesn’t. The gesture just _might_ have been the reason, y’know. In which (quite likely) case, what he’s gained his her hostility. Sweet. > [@](#): > > Let’s say you generally don’t like such gestures. Nevertheless if somebody you like and trust and think highly of does that, you will not react strongly. You will generally let it go. You will tend to interpret it as a friendly gesture. No, I will interpret it as an unfortunate act, and I will let it go only because of the track record such a person had built up beforehand. But I would regard them more warily in the future. > [@](#): > > Bush elicited her true feelings. She is a professionally trained diplomat. Her job is to hide her true feelings. Her job is to promote her country’s agenda. From her reaction we can ascertain that either she thinks Bush is generally skeevy, or else she is feeling antagonist to him. She does not recognize him as someone friendly or familiar and welcome. She is not comfortable being touched by him in a friendly way. Touching is important. It’s why we have the ritual of shaking hands. We can convey a lot of meaning and emotional content with contact. We are wired that way. We respond to it involuntarily. “Good touch,” “bad touch.” Don’t you teach your daughter about such things? If someone touches you in inappropriate ways, that’s a _bad_ touch. > [@](#): > > Bush now has information. She doesn’t like him, or, she may have to promote an agenda with which she anticipates will be antagonistic to him. Of course, it’s quite likely that he’s _created_ that information. > [@](#): > > Bush has not “alienated” her. He has gotten her to express that he is “alien” and unwelcome to her. It’s odd that you should completely disregard the possibility that Bush’s gesture might’ve _changed_ how the recipient felt about him. Human nature can be complicated, but some parts of it are really pretty simple: if you do something nice to someone whose feelings towards you aren’t set in stone, they’ll think better of you. If you do something nasty to that person, they’ll think worse of you. You’ll have to explain how human nature works in _your_ universe. Which seems to be very different from the one that the women in this thread, who’ve talked about how they feel when guys do stuff like this to them, live in. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/253 "2006-07-24T14:13:05Z")
I see on reading through that **Excalibre** , **Gorsnak** , and **John Mace** have beaten me to the punch on most of what I said. I also see that **Scylla** , in his intellectual cowardice, didn’t respond to them, but rather skipped past their posts to **Sublight** ’s easier-to-rebut post. Big surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/254 "2006-07-24T14:59:29Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I see … have beaten me to the punch on most of what I said. [/quote] You did however, add some \* really really nice\* quote coding to the thread. Were I your creepy boss, I’d squeeze your shoulders and give you a hearty “well _done_ **RT**.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/255 "2006-07-24T17:44:20Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] You did however, add some \* really really nice\* quote coding to the thread. Were I your creepy boss, I’d squeeze your shoulders and give you a hearty “well _done_ **RT**.” [/QUOTE] Just so long as you don’t go swinging your dick in my cubicle. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/256 "2006-07-24T17:55:59Z")
I just realized something. Up until fairly recently most people would be screaming, “The President has handlers! What kind of incompetent fuck of a President has handlers!?!” And now people are screaming, “OMG! Where’s the President’s handlers? What kind of incompetent fuck doesn’t listen to his handlers?” ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/257 "2006-07-24T18:02:53Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] I just realized something. Up until fairly recently most people would be screaming, “The President has handlers! What kind of incompetent fuck of a President has handlers!?!” And now people are screaming, “OMG! Where’s the President’s handlers? What kind of incompetent fuck doesn’t listen to his handlers?” [/QUOTE] I assume every president since the start of the TV age (if not further back than that) has had handlers. Not everyone knows how to act with absolute ease while in the public view and I suspect that being a good news anchor involves an entirely different set of skills than being a good president. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/258 "2006-07-24T19:26:12Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] [Not sure where you got that idea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicciolina) [/QUOTE] She’s quite right in her quote at the bottom of the page. She does look like a transvestite, or rather, like a performing female impersonator! That was my first thought when I followed the link. It looks as if she may be the first (and thus far only) person ever to enter and succeed in politics in order to further their porn career. The obvious jokes about sinking to even lower sleaze come to mind, but I actually prefer to go through life absurdly hopeful in believing that at least some people go into politics with a real intention of serving people. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/259 "2006-07-24T19:45:10Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Just so long as you don’t go swinging your dick in my cubicle. 😃 [/QUOTE] It’s **OK**. Like the president, I only mark my territory after everyone’s gone home for the night. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036/260 "2006-07-24T19:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] …Bush now has information. She doesn’t like him, or, she may have to promote an agenda with which she anticipates will be antagonistic to him… [/QUOTE] This is crucial, **Arty** , and casts GeeDub’s actions in an entirely different light. He was performing an \*intelligence gathering activity \* (at considerable personal risk, I might add…) That the Chancellor of Germany thinks POTUS is a dink is _vital_ geopolitical intelligence! It means, for instance, that Germany’s leadership stands in stark contrast to the wildly enthusiastic approval of the world at large! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bush-youre-not-at-a-frat-party-you-dick/365036.md?page=14)