# BushAdmin Negotiates w/Terrorists, Calls Libs Soft on Terror **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213 "2005-06-28T16:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/1 "2005-06-28T16:01:59Z")
Another rant about barefaced hypocrisy. Look, I personally agree it’s probably a good thing to start talking terms with potentially sympathetic members of the Iraqi insurgency, as Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has now [confirmed we’ve been doing](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8359553/): > [@](#): > > Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld acknowledged Sunday that U.S. officials met with insurgents in Iraq, after a British newspaper reported two such meetings took place recently at a villa north of Baghdad. > > Insurgent commanders “apparently came face to face” with four American officials during meetings on June 3 and June 13 at a villa near Balad, some 25 miles north of Baghdad, The Sunday Times reported. > > When asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” about the report of the two meetings, Rumsfeld said, “Oh, I would doubt it. I think there have probably been many more than that.” As we’ve found in many terrorist battles from Northern Ireland to Sri Lanka, it can often be pretty constructive to open talks with some of the people who are trying to kill you. And I’m willing to believe the Administration’s claim that they’re talking to comparative moderates in the insurgent forces and not extending their diplomatic efforts to the most fanatical wingnuts like Zarqawi, which I agree would probably be just a waste of time. And even some conservatives agree with this, e.g., Rich Lowry in a recent [National Review column](http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200506280756.asp): > [@](#): > > A new pall of gloom has settled over the Iraq war. There is no doubt that the insurgency has increased its lethality in recent months, and that can’t be spun away. But neither is it cause for existential despair. […] While applying military pressure, we will have to talk to the insurgency’s more reasonable fringes. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has confirmed that these kinds of conversations are taking place, prompting ritual denunciations from some conservatives for “negotiating with terrorists.” In short, I’m not pitting the talks themselves: in fact, I think they’re one of the least half-assed things our leaders have attempted in the whole course of this half-assed war. But I gotta point out that these leaders have some fucking nerve still trying to paint Democrats and liberals as soft on terrorism (as per the whole recent Karl Rove flap) when **they’re** the ones who are **confessedly, currently, deliberately negotiating with commanders of forces that are trying to kill our soldiers.** We’ve seen time and again that this crew is a bunch of shameless hypocrites, but this is a new low. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/2 "2005-06-28T16:23:48Z")
When Democrats advocate talking with the insurgents, it’s treason, it’s letting the country down, it’s endangering Our Men and Women in Uniform. But IOKIARDI. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/3 "2005-06-28T16:45:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Gen. George Casey, the commander of the American forces in Iraq, denied holding talks with armed groups noting that this might happen soon. This, however, is in clear contradiction with the recognition made by the US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld of convening these talks and describing them as ongoing. [US contradictory statements on negotiations with gunmen in Iraq; Blair supports negotiations](http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/050628/2005062817.html) (June 28, 2005) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/4 "2005-06-28T16:59:52Z")
This is all so very odd. Why even bother to negotiate with an insurgency already in its “death throes”, a final impotent spasm expected to last no more than ten years (twelve, tops!)? Are these still the remnants of the Baathist regime, determined to return Saddam to power? And if soveriegnty as been entirely placed in the hands of the democraticly installed government, what place does the occupying power have at the table, by what legitimacy do they negotiate, since they are presumably not empowered to offer anything? Has the Iraqi government ceded its authority? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/5 "2005-06-28T17:02:45Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > When Democrats advocate talking with the insurgents, it’s treason, it’s letting the country down, it’s endangering Our Men and Women in Uniform. Bingo! Didn’t Rove recently shoot off his mouth about “libs trying to understand our attackers”? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/6 "2005-06-28T17:24:10Z")
Between a rock and a hard place. They’ve been forced by the plummeting polls to sell the war all over again, however, whatever positive spin they attempt to produce is belied by the reality on the ground. Fact is, there is _no_ military victory to be had. Too many tragic mistakes, too late to turn back the clock. Face-saving time against an increasingly hostile American public that finally (!) appears to be waking from the 9/11 induced, post-traumatic stress disorder. The Neocon Empire might not be crumbling yet, but the size of the cracks have become evident to all but the willfully blind. Speaking of “last throes”…I shudder to think what these might be like. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/7 "2005-06-28T17:32:46Z")
Some of you might profit from reading the following article prior to Dear Misleader’s umpteempth attempt to market the invasion. Which, BTW, happens tonight. [Iraq: A bloody mess](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=650186) > [@](#): > > A year ago the supposed handover of power by the US occupation authority to an Iraqi interim government led by Iyad Allawi was billed as a turning point in the violent history of post-Saddam Iraq. > > It has turned out to be no such thing. Most of Iraq is today a bloody no-man’s land beset by ruthless insurgents, savage bandit gangs, trigger-happy US patrols and marauding government forces > > \ > > The news now from Iraq is only depressing. All the roads leading out of the capital are cut. Iraqi security and US troops can only get through in heavily armed convoys. There is a wave of assassinations of senior Iraqi officers based on chillingly accurate intelligence. A deputy police chief of Baghdad was murdered on Sunday. A total of 52 senior Iraqi government or religious figures have been assassinated since the handover. In June 2004 insurgents killed 42 US soldiers; so far this month 75 have been killed. > > \ > > The talks between US officials and some resistance groups revealed in the past few days probably does not mean very much for the moment. The fanatical Islamic and militant former Baathists and nationalists who make up the cutting edge of insurgency are not in the mood to compromise. They are also very fragmented. But the talks may indicate a growing sense among US military and civilian officials that they cannot win this war. When it rains, it pours… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/8 "2005-06-28T17:34:59Z")
Is there any actual report about negotations? A meeting could be nothing more than a “You wanna live? Stop the attacks” declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/9 "2005-06-28T17:41:03Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Some of you might profit from reading the following article prior to Dear Misleader’s umpteempth attempt to market the invasion. Which, BTW, happens tonight. He’s going to tell us he has a plan. It’s a secret plan, which he keeps in a jar buried in his back yard. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/10 "2005-06-28T17:44:29Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Is there any actual report about negotations? A meeting could be nothing more than a “You wanna live? Stop the attacks” declaration. I’d bet more like a “please stop, you’re making the USA look bad, here’s a suitcase of money” ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/11 "2005-06-28T18:02:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Is there any actual report about negotations? A meeting could be nothing more than a “You wanna live? Stop the attacks” declaration. A strategy that has worked like a charm thus far. Specially on suicide bombers which are in such short supply. From the [Marine Corps Times](http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-903486.php): > [@](#): > > Hammes said the guerrillas’ ability to recruit dozens of drivers willing to kill themselves and to maintain the infrastructure to produce more than 140 bombs per month is a troubling sign of the continued strength of the insurgency. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/12 "2005-06-28T18:06:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Is there any actual report about negotations? I’ve looked, and haven’t found any. Did run across this piece on the June 7 Bush/Blair meetup: > [@](#): > > Tony Blair was warned that war-torn Iraq remains on the brink of disaster - more than two years after the removal of Saddam Hussein - during his summit with President Bush in Washington earlier this month. > … > “The Prime Minister was given a pretty depressing run-down of the prognosis for Iraq while he was in Washington,” one senior Ministry of Defence source said last night. "The Americans are pushing for at least a maintenance of the troop numbers we have there now. Our latest intention is to reduce by at least half the number of our troops in Iraq within a year. [Bush warns Blair he must boost UK forces](http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=704102005) Seems like something to keep in mind when the happy horseshit hits the airways this evening. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/13 "2005-06-28T18:23:25Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > He’s going to tell us he has a plan. It’s a secret plan, which he keeps in a jar buried in his back yard. Like Nixon in 1968. Cambodia is getting nervous. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/14 "2005-06-28T20:04:55Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Fact is, there is _no_ military victory to be had. Too many tragic mistakes, too late to turn back the clock. Face-saving time against an increasingly hostile American public that finally (!) appears to be waking from the 9/11 induced, post-traumatic stress disorder. Meh. If I hadn’t seen a couple hundred optimistic posts on how the Shrubbie house of cards were about to come tumbling down… But I have. I’ll celebrate once Dubya is getting all the respect and adulation that Gerald Ford gets. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/15 "2005-06-28T20:08:05Z")
We should play a drinking game during his speech tonight. Everytime he says “freedom” or “stay the course” everyone takes a shot. We’ll be drunk by 8:06. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/16 "2005-06-28T20:26:37Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > He’s going to tell us he has a plan. It’s a secret plan, which he keeps in a jar buried in his back yard. Hermetically sealed in a mayonnaise jar on Funk & Wagnall’s porch? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/17 "2005-06-28T20:35:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hermetically sealed in a mayonnaise jar on Funk & Wagnall’s porch? “EEEEEEEEEEEEEverything you always ewanted to know about Iraq but were afraid to ask!” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/18 "2005-06-28T20:44:09Z")
“Saddam, Rumsfeld, and George W.” _rrrrrrip_ _poof_ _ahem_ Name a grub, a schlub, and a shrub ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/19 "2005-06-28T20:45:10Z")
“OK, its a deal. Ahmed Chalabi is Maximum Leader and Caudillo, you guys get New Jersey and all the rights to _Gigli_. Sign here.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213/20 "2005-06-28T21:29:34Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Bingo! > > Didn’t Rove recently shoot off his mouth about “libs trying to understand our attackers”? He sure did, “hinting” that it was a deliberate act of treason- purposely getting “our own people” killed. Lots of talk about eeevulll motives and such. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bushadmin-negotiates-w-terrorists-calls-libs-soft-on-terror/310213.md?page=2)